Does the community of Fr.Leonard Feeney interpret the baptism of desire as being explicit for us or implicit for us ?
Similarly do they believe that being saved in invincible ignorance followed by the baptism of water is explicit for us or implicit for us?
Do they assume that LG 16 (invincible ignorance ) is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
Do they assume that LG 16 (invincible ignorance ) is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
So is Vatican Council II in perfect agreement with Tradition and the dogma on salvation when it says all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7) and we know there are no known exceptions mentioned in the Council ?
Is the Council in perfect agreement with Fr.Leonard Feeney on the issue of extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
This is the position of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in Worcester and Manchester,USA ?
Do you think that the supporters of Fr.Leonard Feeney are interpreting the baptism of desire as being explicit for us or as being implicit for us ?
This is the fundamental issue.
Once this error is corrected the Council supports Fr.Leonard Feeney
-Lionel Andrades
(from comments on the blog post You are either a Feeneyite or a Cushingite.
Fr.Leonard Feeney's communities using Cushingism?
You are either a Feeneyite or a Cushingite
.http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/08/you-are-either-feeneyite-or-cushingite.html#links
.http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/08/you-are-either-feeneyite-or-cushingite.html#links
One has to be aware of the error of Cushingism when reading Vatican Council II
Posts
5 comments:
Lionel, You said that they have a definition of B of D which suffices.
Lionel, You said that they have a definition of B of D which suffices.
Lionel:
Yes they have a definition of the baptism of desire.
A genuine desire and perfect charity followed by the baptism of water. So they do accept the baptism of desire under this condition.
Is this baptism of desire physically visible to us ?
Is it implicit and known only to God?
Some of them may consider the baptism of desire as being hypothetical only.Is this the official position of the community ?
Do the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary consider the baptism of desire as hypothetical and known only to God and so irrelevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney ?
Does it mean that all salvation mentioned or alluded to in Vatican Council II is hypothetical and known only to God and so not an exception to the literal and traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
Everyone in 2013 needs to enter the Church visibly(with faith and baptism) and there are no known exceptions?
In the present life all with no exceptions must be taught/told that the only means of Salvation is Baptism by water and be a practicing member of the Catholic Church who dies free from mortal sin. Once a person dies any and all mercies beyond this mandate are in the hands of God and not known to us.
The problem is not in knowing the stance of someone at SSPX, the slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, St. Benedict's, FSSP and so on and so on.
The problem in the crisis of faith is the dilution of sound Catholic teaching. The stance of Father Feeney was a turning point in Catholic teaching, catechesis and reverence. Pre VCII there was clarity on, No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church. Modernism and the works of the devil have infiltrated the Church at all levels. The VCII Popes have not demanded, taught and held accountable those for whom they are responsible as the current St. Peter. The very bedrock of our faith is now a smorgasbord of babel which few understand as truths to be held for all time. The VCII Popes have all lamented on the mis interpretations of VCII but it is they who are accountable that the wide spread belief of Cardinal Cushing and countless others on multiple channel paths to Salvation are the accepted norm since VCII. Lionel, how can your questions possibly be answered correctly when the answers and clarity must come from the chair of St. Peter. The Pope must act on this! so sad,,,,,,,
JMJ,
George Brenner
The problem is not in knowing the stance of someone at SSPX, the slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, St. Benedict's, FSSP and so on and so on.
Lionel:
Is it 'sound Catholic teaching' when the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the SSPX assume that the baptism of desire per se is explicit and known to us in the present times and so is an exception(potential or active) to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
Is it sound teaching to assume that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church contradict Fr.Leonard Feeney on the traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation?
Of Course it is not sound teaching when anyone, anywhere at any time in history since Jesus founded the Catholic Church to teach anything other than the absolute necessity of belonging to the catholic Church outside of which there is no salvation. No one can be offered or taught that they might be saved by baptism of Desire or Invincible Ignorance.
VCII does in no way contradict the centuries old teaching on Salvation by Church and Saints alike. Until the Holy Father addresses this clarifies and enforces the bedrock of our faith, the crisis of misunderstanding and lost souls will continue. This crisis of faith is a punishment for not teaching the faith correctly for many decades.
JMJ,
George Brenner
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