Sunday, March 4, 2018

Vatican Council II , the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus tell us outside the Church there is no salvation and Cardinal Ladaria says there is no more the superiority and exclusiveness of salvation in the Catholic Church


MARCH 4, 2018

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If Cardinal Luiz Ladaria s.j had used the For and Neutral to EENS approach Lumen Gentium 8 would not be a rupture with the old teaching on the superiority and exclusiveness of salvation in the Catholic Church

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/03/if-cardinal-luiz-ladaria-sj-had-used.html


-Lionel Andrades


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When non Catholics die it will be God alone who can judge. Which does not mean that you can look at a non Catholic and judge that he will not be going to Hell.




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We must remember that we are not the judges of salvation.
 God is the sole and final judge.
 We do not know who is truly “invincibly ignorant” who died
 from BOB  or BOD and who is not. 
Therefore, we must be careful to “evangelize all men” as
 the Catechism commands us and 
leave the judging to God.
Lionel: 

The Church gives us moral and faith
 conditions for salvation. 
The Bible tells us about it.Those who 
violate it are on the way to Hell.
We can see those who violate it. So
 we know that they are on 
the way to Hell.You have named the
leaders of non Catholic  countries
 for example as 
going to Hell. So you know
 that there is no salvation 
outside the Church.
When non Catholics  die it will be 
God alone who can judge.
 Which does not mean that you 
can look at a non Catholic 
and judge that he will not be 
going to Hell.In the Gospel 
of John, Jesus tells us that the
 Father wants all to honor
 Him as they honour the Father.
 It is necessary to 
believe in Him for salvation.
_________________________


Sorry Lionel, Final judgement belongs to God alone!
I do believe though that there are ONLY Catholics in Heaven!


Or do you not know that the 
unrighteous  will not inherit the 
kingdom of God? Do notbe deceived: 
neither the sexually  immoral,
 nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
 nor men whopractice
 homosexuality, nor 
thieves, nor the greedy, 
nor drunkards, nor revilers,
norswindlers will inherit the 
kingdom of God. -1 Cor.6:9-10


Lionel:
We know that those who sin as such are 
on the way to Hell and this is how God 
will judge them.

Similarly those who do not have faith 
and baptism are  oriented to Hell this
is how God will judge them.


So are you saying that some of us
or you can judge  otherwise?

-Lionel Andrades

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Image result for Photos of outside the Church there is no salvation



Image result for Photos of outside the Church there is no salvation



Image result for Photos of outside the Church there is no salvation


Image result for Photos of outside the Church there is no salvation



Image result for Photos of outside the Church there is no salvation

[EN] This is the truth.... Don Alessandro Minutella defended by parents against lies by RAI TV


[EN] This is the truth...


04:09

This is the truth... Video More

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At minute 1:05 ROBERTA is the girl who a few days ago was assaulted by the journalist stalker (Domenico Marocchi Journalist of the RAI of the … More
In this video (25 November 2017) there are, testimonies of the people who signed a written declaration against the lies of the "RAI" and the "IENE" that have muddied the moral dignity of their daughters and their parent and their priest
because of the unjust decrees of the bishop (Palermo (Italy)) and false witnesses.


https://gloria.tv/language/S2mQ8XjTcSwL3q8noxk8XEbJo

I heard the voice of Jesus say - Songs of Praise

If Cardinal Luiz Ladaria s.j had used the For and Neutral to EENS approach Lumen Gentium 8 would not be a rupture with the old teaching on the superiority and exclusiveness of salvation in the Catholic Church


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Here are some passages in the Catechism and Vatican Council II which Cardinal Luiz Ladaria s.j, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, will interpret with the for and against EENS( extra ecclesiam nulla salus)method  instead of the for and neutral to EENS method,which I use.The method is rational.The conclusion is traditional.
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CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.-Catechism of the Catholic Church

FOR AND AGAINST EENS METHOD 


FOR
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.


FOR
The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit."

FOR
God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism,


AGAINST 
for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

AGAINST 
 he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

Cardinal Ladaria assumes that what is written in red is an exception to that which is written in blue.

For him the hypothetical passages in red are not hypothetical. So they can be exceptions to the passages in blue.

So the passages in red are relevant and are exceptions to the passage in blue for him.

So he cannot come out outright and say :  all non Catholics in the world in 2018 are on the way to Hell, with no known exception, unless they enter the Catholic Church with faith and the baptism of water.This would be the old exclusivisit teaching of the Church.

FOR AND NEUTRAL TO EENS METHOD 

FOR
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.


FOR
The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit."

FOR
God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism,


NEUTRAL 
for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

NEUTRAL 
 he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

For me the text in PURPLE refers to only hypothetical cases which are not examples of known people saved outside the Church in the present times. So they are not practical exceptions to the text in blue. They are neutral.

The FOR AND NEUTRAL TO EENS METHOD emerges with the  absense of the irrational premise ( hypothetical cases like the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are simply hypothetical in 2018.They are not objectively known people).

________________

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VATICAN COUNCIL II
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.
By means of this activity, the Mystical Body of Christ unceasingly gathers and directs its forces toward its own growth (cf. Eph. 4:11-16). The members of the Church are impelled to carry on such missionary activity by reason of the love with which they love God and by which they desire to share with all men the spiritual goods of both its life and the life to come.
Finally, by means of this missionary activity, God is fully glorified, provided that men fully and consciously accept His work of salvation, which He has accomplished in Christ. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

FOR AND AGAINST EENS METHOD

FOR
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -AG 7


AGAINST
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."

Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him. 


FOR AND NEUTRAL TO EENS METHOD 

FOR 
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. 

NEUTRAL
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."

Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him. 

For me the text in PURPLE refers to only hypothetical cases which are not examples of known people saved outside the Church. So they are not practical exceptions to the text in blue.

So for me Vatican Council II(AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation and this must be proclaimed in mission.But for Cardinal Luiz Ladaria and the CDF Staff there are exceptions of those 'inculpably ignorant of the Gospel' whom God can lead to Himself.This is a non hypothetical case for the CDF Prefect. So not every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Church for him, as the blue passages in Ad Gentes 7 tell me.
So we are both reading the same passage in Vatican Council II(AG 7) but he does it with the for and against EENS method which depends on the false premise. I avoid it.
So Cardinal Ladaria will not say that all Jews and Muslims in the USA are on the way to Hell in 2018 unless they enter the Catholic Church with faith and baptism according to Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994).There will not be mission for him based on this traditional teaching of the Church.


CONCLUSION
At the Press Conference on Placuit Deo Cardinal Ladaria interpreted Lumen Gentium 8 as an exception to EENS and a rupture with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.If he had used the For and Neutral to EENS approach it would not be a rupture with the old teaching on the superiority and exclusiveness of salvation in the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades

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