Thursday, February 22, 2018

So at least the traditionalists should tell the two popes that they follow Lionel Andrades' interpretation on Vatican Council II and EENS.

I affirm magisterial documents with a rational theology it is the popes and the rest of the Church who have to do the same. Don't expect me to support their irrationality with reference to Vatican Council II and so go into schism like them.


I do do not deny Vatican Council II. I just interpret it without the false premise.
Neither do they deny Vatican Council II. They just interpret it with the false premise.
So I produce a rational and traditional conclusion.
They produce a rupture with Tradition and call it magisterial.
They have to change. Not me.
The traditionalists who follow the present two popes have to change.
The liberals who follow the two popes have to change.
They can choose to interpret Vatican Council II like me.

They can avoid the false premise and the interpretation of Vatican Council II changes.
Just like the liberals and I do not blame Vatican Council II, also the conservative and traditionalist Catholics  should also not put the blame on the Council. It can be interpreted in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.This is how I interpret it.The liberals though would reject this interpretation.They may then reject Vatican Council II like the traditionalists do today.
So at least the traditionalists should tell the two popes that they will follow Lionel Andrades' interpretation of Vatican Council II and EENS.
Show them difference between the two interpretations. It is all there on the Internet.
-Lionel Andrades

FEBRUARY 22, 2018






I affirm magisterial documents with a rational theology it is the popes and the rest of the Church who have to change and do the same. They should not expect me to repeat all their irrationality with reference to EENS and so go into schism like them

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/i-affirm-magisterial-documents-with_22.html

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I affirm magisterial documents with a rational theology it is the popes and the rest of the Church who have to change and do the same. They should not expect me to repeat all their irrationality with reference to EENS and so go into schism like them



I affirm all  magisterial documents and for me Lumen Gentium 16(invincible ignorance) refers to hypothetical cases, invisible people in 2018.
The present two popes and all who follow them also affirm all magisterial documents but for them LG 16 refers to non hypothetical and visible people in 2018.
I am in harmony with the Magisterium of the 16th century while they are in a rupture with the past  Magisterium. They are in schism.
This was officially confirmed by Pope Benedict XVI in March 2016 when he said that EENS was no more like it was for the missionaries in the 16th century(Avvenire).
The two popes and all those who follow them in the Catholic Church have simply to continue affirming all magisterial documents but interpret LG 16 like me.They will have corrected themselves and will no more be in schism.

Once again 'Rome will come back to theFaith'.
1.They must understand that hypothetical cases mentioned in Vatican Coouncil II(LG16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 tec) cannot be exceptions to EENS.
2.Similarly they must understand that hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I cannot be objective exceptions to Feeneyite EENS or as it was understood in the 16th century.
Now with this error we have two interpretations of Vatican Council II.
Even if a St.Emerentiana allegedly was saved withtout the baptism of water in the Church she is not an exception to EENS in 2018.
Even if someone at the last moment before death repents and is to be saved he is not known to us human beings and cannot be relevant to EENS.
Even if some one is saved in another religion it is a hypothetical case and so it cannot be an exception to the dogma EENS. An exception must exist and be different. If there  is a box of oranges and there is an apple in that box that apple is an exception since it is different and also since it exists there in that box. If it was different but not in that box, it would not be an exception there.
Here are some exceptions to EENS mentioned by Michael Voris on a Vortex program.Similar exceptions have also been mentioned by Bradley Eli on Church Militant TV.

Some of Michael Voris'  exceptions in the Vortex, Do Non Catholics Go to Hell are :-
1.Beyond being a card carrying Catholic to go to Heaven.It is not important if one is card carrying member of the Church or not.
2.God’s grace is not bound by the sacraments. He can certainly operate outside of them. As if we could know and so it is relevant.
3. Does the “good” Protestant husband and father go to Hell because he wasn’t Catholic? Can we judge who among the Catholics is good and will be an exception to EENS ?
4. It should not be asked, “Will he go to Heaven if he wasn’t Catholic?” but, “Was he in a state of grace".So can we  know if someone is in a state of  grace and so will be an exception to the dogma EENS?
5.Now, we can never know with any certitude, of course, the disposition of any particular soul; that is completely in the realm of Our Lord as Judge.Exactly and so every one needs to be ' a card carrying member of the Church' to avoid Hell.
6.But in the hypothetical discussions people engage in, we can ask these questions. We speak in hypotheticals because principles of understanding fall from them. All the exceptions mentioned here are hypotheticals.
7.Faithful sacrament-frequenting Catholics are much more likely to be saved than anyone else because such a man is much more likely to die in a state of grace.A hypothetical and subjective evaluation. This is a compromise since Michael Voris does not want to say all Jews, Muslims, Protestants and other non Catholics in Detroit are on the way to Hell and there are no known exceptions. For CMTV Lumen Gentium 16 refers to an exception to the dogma EENS.
8. It is much more difficult to be saved if you are not a Catholic with access to the sacraments to restore you to and keep you in a state of grace.True but still every one with no exception in Detroit,Michigan needs to enter the Church as a member , with faith and baptism, to avoid the fires of Hell ( for salvation).This is a Magisterial teaching today with Feeneyite theology. 
This is not the teaching of  magisterial documents interpreted by the two popes with  irrational Cushingite theology.
9.All salvation comes through the Catholic Church, and outside of Her there is no salvation.This is a cop out. He is repeating Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's New Theology in the Catechism of the Catholic Church(846).It was used to deny the dogma EENS and to call it an 'aphorism'. So EENS was changed and so was the interpretation of Vatican Council II. 1
How can invisible people, probabilities, speculative possibilities be exceptions to EENS when they do not exist in our reality ? HOw can people in Heaven be also seen on earth ? This reasoning violates the Principle of Non Contradiction of Aristotele.
With Feeneyism  these nine points  are simply hypothetical  and so they are not practical exceptions to the dogma EENS.
With Cushingite theology hypothetical cases are not hypothetical  but known people saved outside the Church in the present times.So they become exceptions to EENS in the present times.
Michael Voris interprets the Catechism and Vatican Council II  with hypothetical cases not hypothetical in the present times. 







So what am I to do ? They do not expect me to repeat all this irrationality with reference to EENS and to also go into schism like them  ?
I affirm magisterial documents with a rational theology it is the popes and the rest of the Church who have to change and do the same.
They need to interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism like I do. 2
-Lionel Andrades


1.

FEBRUARY 18, 2018


There will not be mission for Michael Voris based on the traditional teaching of the Church supported by Vatican Council II and the Catechism(1994) since he chooses Cushingism.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/there-will-not-be-mission-for-michael.html






2.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH INTERPRETED WITH FEENEYISM(LIKE ME) AND CUSHINGISM( LIKE THE POPES AND CMTV)
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.-Catechism of the Catholic Church

Feeneyite line.
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.


Feeneyite passage:
The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit."

Feeneyite line.
God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism,


Cushingite line
for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

Cushingite line
 he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

Now Michael Voris being a Cushingite in theology assumes that what is written in red is an exception to that written in blue.

For him the hypothetical passages inred are not hypothetical. So they can be exceptions to the passages inblue.

So the passages in red are relevant and are exceptions to the passage inblue for him.











So he cannot come out outright and say :  all non Catholics in the world in 2018 are on the way to Hell, with no known exception, unless they enter the Catholic Church with faith and the baptism of water.

For me the text in red refers to only hypothetical cases which are not examples of known people saved outside the Church in the present times. So they are not practical exceptions to the text inblue.
So I am reading the same passage as Michael but my theology is Feeneyite.
Feeneyism for me means the absense of the irrational premise ( hypothetical cases like the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are non hypothetical in 2018).
So the nine points of Michael Voris are hypothetical cases which are non hypothetical and they prevent him from saying all non Catholics in 2018 need to enter the Church to avoid Hell.
If I was presenting this Vortex I would not have mentioned these nine points since they are not relevant to EENS. This is even though the authors of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994) are Cushingites.The Catechism can be re-interpreted with Feeneyism.
________________

VATICAN COUNCIL II INTERPRETED WITH FEENEYISM(LIKE ME) AND CUSHINGISM( LIKE THE POPES AND CMTV)

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.
By means of this activity, the Mystical Body of Christ unceasingly gathers and directs its forces toward its own growth (cf. Eph. 4:11-16). The members of the Church are impelled to carry on such missionary activity by reason of the love with which they love God and by which they desire to share with all men the spiritual goods of both its life and the life to come.
Finally, by means of this missionary activity, God is fully glorified, provided that men fully and consciously accept His work of salvation, which He has accomplished in Christ. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

Feeneyite passage:
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. 

 yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.

The members of the Church are impelled to carry on such missionary activity by reason of the love with which they love God and by which they desire to share with all men the spiritual goods of both its life and the life to come.

Finally, by means of this missionary activity, God is fully glorified, provided that men fully and consciously accept His work of salvation, which He has accomplished in Christ. 


Cushingite passages:
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."

Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him 

For me the text in red refers to only hypothetical cases which are not examples of known people saved outside the Church. So they are not practical exceptions to the text in blue.
So I am reading the same passage as Michael but my theology is Feeneyite.
So for me Vatican Council II(AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation and this must be proclaimed in mission.But for Michael Voris there are exceptions of those 'inculpably ignorant of the Gospel' whom God can lead to Himself.This is a non hypothetical case for Michael. So not every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Church for him, as the blue passages in Ad Gentes 7 tell me.
So we are both reading the same passage in Vatican Council II(AG 7) but he does it with Cushingite theology which depends on the false premise. I avoid it.This I call Feeneyism.
So Michael Voris will not say that all Jews and Muslims in Detroit are on the way to Hell in 2018 unless they enter the Catholic Church with faith and baptism according to Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994).There will not be mission for him based on this traditional teaching of the Church.-
__________________





I am a Feeneyite who does not reject BOD, BOB and I.I
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/i-am-feeneyite-who-does-not-reject-bod.html


FEBRUARY 17, 2018
I affirm baptism of desire(BOD) Feeneyite and extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) Feeneyite.I do not reject BOD,baptism of blood (BOB)and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) which are always Feeneyite for me.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/i-affirm-baptism-of-desirebod-feeneyite.html

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RELEVANT LABELS/ TAGS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THIS BLOG (Click on link to access)
Vatican Council II( premise free)(2)
Vatican Council II(Cushingite).(5)
Vatican Council II(Feeneyite)(8)
Vatican Council II(premise free)(2)
Vatican Council II(premise-free)(6)Vatican Council II and EENS(2)
Vatican Council II but interpreted with two different theologies(2)
Vatican Council II Cushigite(1)
Vatican Council II Cushingite(1)
Vatican Council II Development(1)
Extrra ecclesiam nulla salus(remise free)(1)
Vatican Council II is Feeneyite(11)
Vatican Council IIin harmony with EENS( Feeneyite)(1)
Nicene Creed(10)
Nicene Creed was changed with the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 mistake(5)
Catechism of the Catholic Church ( Cushingite)(2)
Catechism of the Catholic Church (Feeneyite)(2)

Feeneyite EENS(1)
Feeneyite EENS Vatican Council II(Feeneyite)(3)
Feeneyite Theology(1)
Feeneyite Vatican Council II(1)
Feeneyite-Cushingite Model(1)
Cushing Additions(2)
Cushing heresy(4)
Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error(22)
Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error Examples in Vatican Council II(25)
Cushingis(2)
Cushingism(104)
Cushingism and the Catholic popes(7)
Cushingism in Vatican Council II(17)
Cushingite(3)
Cushingite Bishops(1)
Cushingite Theology(6)
Cushingites(1)
Cushngism(2)

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JANUARY 27, 2018
What is Feeneyism? (Graphics)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/what-is-feeneyism.html

JANUARY 27, 2018
What is Cushingism ?(Graphics)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/what-is-cushingism-graphics.html

Graphics (44)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/018/01/you-decide.html
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What Wondrous Love Is This // Living Room Session