Monday, February 12, 2018

Similarly for me Vatican Council II is Feeneyite.Now please do not cite LG 16 as an exception. It would be an exception for you since you are a Cushingite.

I am a Feeneyite in my theology and philosophy.So is the Catechism of Pope Pius X, the Catechism of the Council of Trent and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994).They are all Feeneyite for me.
Now please do not cite BOD, BOB and I.I from these Catechisms. Since for you they are relevant to EENS since you are a Cushingite. Not for me.They are simply hypothetical cases for me.

Similarly for me Vatican Council II is Feeneyite.Now please do not cite LG 16 as an exception. It would be an exception for you since you are a Cushingite.

I am a Feeneyite and so the Nicene Creed is traditional.Now please do not say that you believe in not one known baptism for the forgiveness of sins but instead three or more and they all exclude the baptism of water in the Church. This is heresy for me. But then you are a Cushingite so this must be expected.-Lionel Andrades


http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/i-am-feeneyite-in-my-theology-and.html

I am a Feeneyite in my theology and philosophy.So is the Catechisn of Pope Pius X, the Catechism of the Council of Trent and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994).They are all Feeneyite for me.

There are Only Catholics in Heaven!

Lionel. Yes and they are all there with the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
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 Michael Voris has a complete video on this subject by itself.

Lionel. Yes and he avoids answering how can BOD, BOB and I.I be exceptions to the dogma EENS for him.He is a rupture in EENS with the Magisterium of the 16th century. With this same reason Vatican Council II is interpreted by him with the hermeneutic of rupture.
For me Vatican Council II is a not rupture with Tradition. EENS is the same as it was for the missionaries of the 16th century. This is because I am using the theology of Feeneyism and Michael Voris is a Cushingite like the Archbishop of Detroit.
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 The Catholic Church would not have a complete explanation on topic of Bob . Bod and II century after century ! 

Lionel. You cited the Catechism of Pope Pius X which mentions invincible ignorance.It does not state that invincible ignorance refers to known people saved outside the Church. This is a personal inference.So how can you, the SSPX and the liberal theologians suggest that I.I is an exception to EENS? 
Sometime back you said that BOD, BOB and I.I are not exceptions to EENS since these are not
 known cases. So why have you cited the Catechism of Pope Pius X ?
When you speak to me you say BOD, BOB and I.I cannot be visible and known and so they are not exceptions to EENS but when you speak to the others you change your mind ?
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Father Feeney denied that there could be such a thing as Bob, Bod or II during or after death.

Lionel: This is your interpretation. It differs from mine.
However I have given you my definition of Feeneyism and Cushingism.
When I refer to Feeneyism it is according to Lionel Andrades. It means interpreting BOD, BOb and I.I as being hypothetical and theoretical and not concrete and known persons saved outside the Church. We cannot know any such person. May be this is what Fr.Feeney was saying.He denied that there are objective cases of salvation outside the Church. This is common sense.How can we see a BOD, BOB and I.I case in Heaven?

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 He was excommunicated for holding such a position. 

Lionel: He was excommunicated by the Archbishop of Boston, who was saying hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are not hypothetical.So there is salvation outside the Church.
This is irrational, non traditional and heretical but it became magisterial. It still is.
 I am sorry Lionel, but you, most of those in the Catholic Church and Father Feeney did NOT understand this simple sentence that there are ONLY CATHOLIC'S in HEAVEN which includes those who die in the state of Bob, Bod or II 
Lionel. O.K this is your theology which accommodates known cases of BOD, BOB and I.I being relevant to EENS. This is what I call Cushingite theology.
I avoid it. 
There are only Catholics in Heaven and BOD, BOB and I.I have nothing to do with EENS for me.I am a Feeneyite in my theology and philosophy.So is the Catechism of Pope Pius X, the Catechism of the Council of Trent and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994).They are all Feeneyite for me.
Now please do not cite BOD, BOB and I.I from these Catechisms. Since for you they are relevant to EENS since you are a Cushingite. Not for me.They are simply hypothetical cases for me.

Similarly for me Vatican Council II is Feeneyite.Now please do not cite LG 16 as an exception. It would be an exception for you since you are a Cushingite.

I am a Feeneyite and so the Nicene Creed is traditional.Now please do not say that you believe in not one known baptism for the forgiveness of sins but instead three or more and they all exclude the baptism of water in the Church. This is heresy for me. But then you are a Cushingite so this must be expected.



and are pronounced Catholic by God himself, whether we know it or not. 


Lionel: O.K this is your opinion it is theoretical, speculative. So you personally do not know of any exception to EENS.
With Cushingite theology,you are making BOD, BOB and I.I relevant to EENS. This is the official and common Cushingite way of looking at salvation today. It rejects the exclusivist ecclesiology of the past by assuming there are known cases of people saved outside the Church with BOD,BOB and I.I.-Lionel Andrades







FEBRUARY 12, 2018











So now there is no doctrinal unity. Why should I say that invisible cases of BOD,BOB and I.I are visible exceptions to EENS and Card.Cushing, Abp. Lefebvre and Pope Pius XII were not heresy? Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for his orthodoxy.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/so-now-there-is-no-doctrinal-unity-why.html

So now there is no doctrinal unity. Why should I say that invisible cases of BOD,BOB and I.I are visible exceptions to EENS and Card.Cushing, Abp. Lefebvre and Pope Pius XII were not in heresy? Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for his orthodoxy.

Pope Pius IX

Pius IX clearly says that all those who are invincibly ignorant, and yet live upright lives ready to obey God, will be saved. God does not allow anyone who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishment.
Lionel: Yes. But he does not state that we personally can know any such case in real life. So it does not make it an exception or related to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). This was the mistake of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. It assumed invisible and unknown cases were exceptions to Feeneyite EENS. This mistake has continued  with the popes and it has spread through out the Church.
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Pope Pius X (Catechism)

Q: But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved? (A.9 Q.29)
A: If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation.
To be united to the soul of the Church means to share in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, who is the soul of the Church--above all, to share in faith, hope, and charity. Thus according to the teaching of Pope Pius X, a person who is outside of the Church, yet not by his own fault, can posssess the theological virtues, and be on the way to salvation inside the Roman Catholic Church.
Lionel: The same as above. It is not said that this is a reference to a known person. It still is hypothetical.The liberal theologians misinterpreted it and Pope Pius XII did not correct them .There was no correction by Cardinal Ratzinger as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The heresy is still be taught by the CDF. The Nicene Creed has been chamged(three known baptisms) and there are two versions of Vatican Council II(Cushingite and Feeneyite).This is a doctrinal mess in the Catholic Church.
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it is not a doctrinal mess in the world.
Lionel: There is no doctrinal unity. How can I,for example, say like the two popes and the SSPX that invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions to EENS, EENS 

as it was known to the Magisterium in the 16th century.
Pope Benedict in March 2016(Avvenire) said EENS, for him, was no more like it was for the 16th century. This is heresy in public for me.
For me EENS today is like it was in the 16th century.
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 What is a problem is that Catholics hardly ever teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic  Church for over 60 years now,
Lionel: Why should they teach it when the popes and the SSPX  believe that there is salvation outside the Church, since there are known cases of people saved outside the Church without the baptism of water. You also believe the same.
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 INCLUDED in this statement those that are baptized with water which is the only manner that we can teach along with those who are baptized into the Catholic faith by blood, desire or invincible ignorance.
Lionel: This is your theory.For me there are no BOD, BOB and I.I cases and so they are not relevant to EENS.
If hypothetically you say BOD.BOB and I.I are theoretically a part of EENS for you, whatever that they mean, it is fine with me.
 Since BOD,BOB and l.I are still not relevant to EENS since they are not explicit.They are not objectively visible in the present times.

However the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 considered them exceptions to EENS. You accept the Letter and so do the popes and Archbishop Lefebvre. This is a big error. It is saying that there is salavtion outside the Church. So why should it be taught that there is no salvation outside the Church, for you?
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 EVERYONE in Heaven is Catholic.
Lionel: For you this means that there are known people saved outside the Church in other religions.This was how Archbishop Lefebvre and Fr,Karl Rahner reasoned. So there was salvation outside the Church. This is a false inference.Since hypothethetical and unknown cases cannot be examples of salvation outside the Church .They are not concrete cases, known people.Since there cannot ever be known and visible cases for us humans.
This is what Pope Benedict meant in March 2016. Cardinal Cushingism said the same thing.This is a mistake.It leads to heresy.The dogma EENS is discarded with an irrational reasoning.
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 Father Feeney spoke AGAINST   Bob, Bod and II as a form of salvation within the Catholic Church
Lionel:Correct. I am saying the same thing.BOD. BOB and I.I are accepted as possibilities known only to God but there are no known cases of BOD.BOB and I.I.It is possible that there was a BOD case this year but it is also possible that there was no such case this year.
Also for me BOD, BOB and I.I would be followed with the baptism of water.Since this is the dogmatic teaching.It comes from John 3:5 and Mark 16:16.Where are the known exceptions to Jesus teachings in John 3:5 and Mark 16:16? There are none known to us.
Since BOD,BOB and I.I do not exist in our reality they never were known forms of salvation in the Catholic Church.The liberal theologians made a mistake.

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 which denied and was excommunicated for it!!!! 
Lionel: He was excommunicated for his orthodoxy. 
He would not accept the innovation in the Church.
So now there is no doctrinal unity. Why should I say that invisible cases of BOD,BOB and I.I are visible exceptions to EENS and Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop Lefebvre and Pope Pius XII were not heresy?
For me they were.
They were a rupture with the Magisterium in the 16th century. 
However Archbishop Lefebvre was correct in rejecting Vatican Council II in which BOD,BOB and Il.I were exceptions.Do you think he too was excommunicated 
for his orthodoxy? It was the responsibility of the Magisterium to interpret BOD,BOB and I.I as being invisible cases and so not exceptions to the past ecclesiology. Pope Benedict did not do this in March 2016.He had a choice.
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It  does matter whether we know when a person has been saved by Bob, Bod or II. 
Lionel: But how can we know ? It is only God who can see someone saved without the baptism of water and with BOD, BOB and I.I?
So how would a pope, cardinal or bishop know?
-Lionel Andrades



FEBRUARY 11, 2018


They have rejected EENS, changed the Nicene Creed and Vatican Council II and created a new understanding of the Catholic Faith and they call themselves traditionalists!.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/they-have-rejected-eens-changed-nicene.html

FEBRUARY 11, 2018


Who saw BOD cases in Heaven? Who met them on earth?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/who-saw-bod-cases-in-heaven-who-met.html


FEBRUARY 10, 2018


Popes since Pius XII and Archbishop Lefebvre would be in heresy for the Magisterium in the 16th century

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/popes-since-pius-xii-and-archbishop.html


FEBRUARY 9, 2018


If Michael Voris could accept that Pope Pius XII, Card. Ottaviani and Abp Lefebvre were in heresy while Fr. Leonard Feeney was teaching Catholic orthodoxy then the interpretation of Vatican Council II would change for CMTV.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/if-michael-voris-could-accept-that-pope.html


FEBRUARY 8, 2018


Church Militant TV is interpreting the Nicene Creed, Vatican Council II and EENS with Cushingism and so are a rupture with the past Magisterium of the Church.This is doctrinal chaos.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/church-militant-tv-is-interpreting.html
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 JANUARY 3, 2018



Similarly would you agree that when Mystici Corporis and the Catechisms of Pius X and Trent mentioned BOD, BOB and I.I were also referring to hypothetical cases and so they are not exceptions to EENS?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/similarly-would-you-agree-that-when.html



OCTOBER 10, 201

Vatican Council II and the Catechism of Pope Pius X are Feeneyite.They contradict Pope Pius XII,the Archbishop of Boston and the U.S Jesuits.Confusion arises with 29Q which can be interpreted as being visible or invisible  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/10/vatican-council-ii-and-catechism-of.html

Pope Pius XII, Pope Benedict and Cardinal Luiz Ladaria were wrong and Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct : apology from CDF long over due

Image result for Photo Pope Pius XII
The popes since Pius XII made a factual error and this error is used to interpret Vatican Council II.Without this error Vatican Council II is in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( EENS ), which Catholics are not aware of or do not want to proclaim.
Image result for Photo Fr.Leonard Feeney
Pope Pius XII did not defend Fr.Leonard Feeney.This was about the time of the creation of the State of Israel.He did not announce that the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood)BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) referred to theoretical and hypothetical cases only and they could not be known examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church.
Image result for Photo Pope Benedict and Cardinal Luis Ladaria
However in March 2016(Avvenire) Pope Benedict XVI informed all that there is known salvation outside the Church and questioned the need for mission.So like Cardinal Richard Cushing, the former liberal Archbishop of Boston, Pope Benedict was  saying that there was salvation outside the Church , for him.
He was honest to call it 'a development' and mentiioned that this development was not there in the 16th century.He refused to affirm EENS and Vatican Council II without this innovation.
Also in 1997 in Christianity and the World Religions(International Theological Commission, Vatican) he inferred that there was known salvation outside the Church.So he concluded, with Fr. Luiz Ladaria s.j, the then President of ITC and now Cardinal-Prefect of the CDF, that Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong and Pope Pius XII was correct.

International Theological Commission (ITC)

10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22).-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions 1997.



International Theological Commission (ITC)

62. It is not possible to develop a theology of the religions without taking into account the universal salvific mission of the Church, attested to by Holy Scripture and by the tradition of faith of the Church. A theological evaluation of the religions was impeded over a long time because of the principle extra ecclesiam nulla salus, understood in an exclusivist sense.(Lionel: Now it is not!) With the doctrine about the Church as the universal sacrament of salvation or the sacrament of the kingdom of God, theology seeks to respond to the new way of posing the problem. This teaching, which was also welcomed by Vatican Council II (Lionel: Interpreted with the false premise) , is linked to the sacramental vision of the Church in the New Testament.-Christianity and the World Religions (2007. ITC)
International Theological Commission (ITC)

66. In his encyclical Mystici Corporis, Pius XII addresses the question, How are those who attain salvation outside visible communion with the Church related to her? He says that they are oriented to the mystical body of Christ by a yearning and desire of which they are not aware (DS 3821).( Lionel: And this is an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus for Ratzinger and Ladaria ) -Christianity and the World Religions 2007

66. The opposition of the American Jesuit Leonard Feeney, who insisted on the exclusivist interpretation of the expression extra ecclesiam nulla solus, afforded the occasion for the letter of the Holy Office, dated 8 August ,1949, to the archbishop of Boston, which rejected Feeney s interpretation and clarified the teaching of Pius XII.
-Christianity and the World Religions 2007


We now know that invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I never ever were visible,objective exceptions to the dogma EENS as it was known in the 16th century or to Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston.
So the popes Pius XII and Benedict XVI were wrong and Fr. Leonard Feeney was correct. They were irrational, non traditional and heretical while Fr. Leonard Feeney was repeating Catholic orthodoxy.
So the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) today needs to apologize for the excommunication of Fr.Leonard Feeney and admit that doctrinally the Magisterium was wrong and the priest from Boston was correct.
This also has a doctrinal bearing today on how the SSPX in particular and Catholics in  general interpret Vatican Council II and EENS.
The Council is not a rupture with the traditional interpretation of EENS if the Pius XII, Pope Benedict and Cardinal Ladaria irrationality is avoided.
-Lionel Andrades


Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

NO NEED FOR ‘SECRET TALKS’ ANYMORE: WE KNOW THE HERETICAL POSITION OF THE VATICAN NEGOTIATORS

BISHOP CHARLES MOREROD O.P IN BLATANT HERESY IS TO SPEAK BEFORE THE POPE ON ANGLICAN RELATIONS

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION USES PREMISE THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT : LIMBO

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

VATICAN COUNCIL II(Feeneyite) REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF RELIGIONS

Baptism-‘necessity of means or precept’-you wouldn’t know the difference, so why mention it ?

SSPX WEBSITE: ' I believe in three baptisms for the forgiveness of sins’ ?

Bishop Fellay, Fr.Schmidberger,FSSP,Joseph Fenton seem unaware that the baptism of desire is not an explicit exception to the dogma



Traditionalists not welcome in Catholic churches: they first have to accept the doctrine of the dead-saved are physially visible to us and then adapt this new doctrine to Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/traditionalists-not-welcome-in-catholic.html#links



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International Theological Commission (ITC)

58. In the face of new problems and situations and of an exclusive interpretation of the adage: “salus extra ecclesiam non est”,[88] the magisterium, in recent times, has articulated a more nuanced understanding as to the manner in which a saving relationship with the Church can be realized. The Allocution of Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam (1854) clearly states the issues involved: “It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it, will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who live in ignorance of the true religion, if such ignorance be invincible, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord”-The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized(2007. International Theological Commission) Fr.Luiz Ladaria S.j was the Secretary General of the ITC in 2007.He is now the Prefect of the CDF.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_index-doc-pubbl_en.html




International Theological Commission
59. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston (1949) offers further specifications. “To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in reality (reapse) as a member of the Church, but it is necessary that one belong to it at least in desire and longing (voto et desiderio). It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens.The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized



 AUGUST 26, 2012

International Theological Commission papers are full of ‘non-sense’ since we don’t know anyone saved with the baptism of desire: Priests who protest against the ITC could be suspended
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/08/international-theological-commission.html