Wednesday, January 31, 2018

There is no empirical evidence to suggest St Emerentiana is in Heaven without the baptism of water and so is an exception to EENS and the Nicene Creed



Ann Barnhardt's view on St. Emerentiana is speculation.There is no empirical evidence to suggest  that St. Emerentiana is in Heaven with the baptism of desire or baptism of blood and without the baptism of water.No one could see or meet a person in real life saved with the  baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and in invincible ignorance (I.I). So when there are no known cases of BOD, BOB and I.I then where is the proof that St.Emerentiana was an exception to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS)? 

How could she be an exception to the dogmatic teaching on exclusive salvation in the Church and all needing 'faith and baptism' for salvation(Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II)?

The norm for salvation is 'faith and baptism', so how can it be said that St.Emerentiana is an exception to the norm?.
And if someone in the Church has declared that she is an exception then who is this person and who gave him or her the authority to make this statement?
The issue is not whether or not she is a saint but whether she is in Heaven without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.We can accept in faith that she is a saint in Heaven but how can we accept in faith that St.Emerentiana is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Nicene Creed( I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins) ?
I accept the baptism of desire.For me it is always a hypothetical and speculative reference. It cannot be anything else. It cannot be  visible like the baptism of water. The baptism of water can be seen and repeated.We cannot give any one the baptism of desire.
So we can only accept it as being theoretical. So how can a theoretical case be an exception to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus in real life in 2018,for example?
So I do not reject the baptism of desire, I repeat.It does not have to be the baptism of desire or extra ecclesiam nulla salus for me.It never was either-or. I affirm implicit for us baptism of desire along with the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS.The baptism of desire is not an issue for me as a Feeneyite(See Feeneyism according to Lionel Andrades   
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/what-is-feeneyism.html )
Since the baptism of desire is accepted as a possibility, for me, the possibility will include the baptism of water. It would be the baptism of desire followed by the baptism of water in a way known only to God.







But with or without the baptism of water, the baptism of desire cannot be an exception or relevant to the dogma EENS as it was known,for example, to the missionaries and magisterium in the 16th century.Ann Barnhardt has made an objective mistake, the common one.To suggest someone in Heaven is saved with the baptism of desire and this personis an objective exception to the dogma EENS,violates the Principle of Non Contradiction.How can this person be in two places at the same time?
-Lionel Andrades

RELEVANT LABELS/ TAGS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THIS BLOG (CLICK TO ACCESS)



  • Vatican Council II( premise free)(2)
  • Vatican Council II(Cushingite).(5)
  • Vatican Council II(Feeneyite)(8)
  • Vatican Council II(premise free)(2)
  • Vatican Council II(premise-free)(6)

  • ____________________________________

    JANUARY 27, 2018

    What is Feeneyism? (Graphics)

    JANUARY 27, 2018

    What is Cushingism ?(Graphics)


    JANUARY 30, 2018


    So it all starts from St. Emerentiana ...http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/so-it-all-starts-from-st-emerentiana.html



    ANUARY 30, 2018




    The way you look at St. Emerentiana decides how you interpret Vatican Council II  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/the-way-you-look-at-st-emerentiana.html



    St.Emerentiana a possibility - how is she relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/stemerentiana-possibility-how-is-she.html


    JANUARY 25, 2018




    Fr.Feeney did not suggest like Ann Barnhardt that invisible cases of the baptism of desire were visible exceptions to the dogma EENS

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/frfeeney-did-not-suggest-like-ann.html




    Ann Barnhardt still uses Cushingite theology like the other traditionalists

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/ann-barnhardt-still-uses-cushingite.html


    JANUARY 24, 2018

    Ann Barnhardt still uses Cushingite theology like the other traditionalists

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/ann-barnhardt-still-uses-cushingite.html

    OCTOBER 25, 2017

    Louie Verrecchio, Ann Barnhardt, David Domet, the two popes and the CDF Prefect are in heresy : correction and recantation of error needed
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/10/louie-verrecchio-ann-barnhardt-david.html

     SEPTEMBER 19, 2017

    Ann Barnhardt, Chris Ferrara's reasoning seem rational but their premises and so inferences are wronghttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/09/ann-barnhardt-chris-ferraras-reasoning.html

    AUGUST 2, 2017

    Ann Barnhardt and Eric Gajiewski(Trad Cat Knight) have no denial : they use a false premise to interpret Vatican Council II even when they can avoid it

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/08/ann-barnhardt-and-eric-gajiewskitrad.html

    JULY 31, 2017

    For sedevacantists Eric Gajiewski and Ann Barnhardt LG 16 refers to a visible case and so Vatican Council II contradicts Tradition

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/07/fpr-sedevacantists-eric-gajiewski-and.html

    SEPTEMBER 15, 2016


    Ann Barnhardt with a false premise and conclusion misinterprets the Catholic Faith http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/09/ann-barnhardt-with-false-premise-and.html


    Ann Barnhardt is a Catholic even though she violates the Principle of Non Contradiction http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/ann-barnhardt-is-catholic-even-though.html

    DECEMBER 18, 2015

    Ann Barnhardt interprets magisterial documents with Cushingismhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/ann-barnhardt-is-using-cushingism-to.html

    FEBRUARY 7, 2015

    There Is No Salvation Outside The Catholic Church (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus) - Ann Barnhardt http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/there-is-no-salvation-outside-catholic.html

    MARCH 1, 2017

    TradCat Knight and Ann Barnhardt interpret extra ecclesiam nulla salus with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism, they use an irrational premise.

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/03/tradcat-knight-and-ann-barnhardt.html







    OCTOBER 26, 2017


    How can it be said that a pope in heresy cannot be a pope when the traditionalists are making the same error?
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/10/how-can-it-be-said-that-pope-in-heresy.html



    Repost : Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)


    DECEMBER 9, 2017   - January 31, 2018

    Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)

    The Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection. They do not deny that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one with the irrational premise and the other without it.
    They do not deny that all religious communities can affirm the dogma extra ecclesam nulla salus(without the premise) and Vatican Council II ( without the premise).There is a Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) and a Vatican Council II(Cushingite) depending upon the use or non use of the invisible people are visible premise.
    They do not deny reports which state that the Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objections if the Society of St. Pius X(SSPX) and all religious communities ( Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites etc) affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise) and reject Vatican Council II( with the premise).

    -Lionel Andrades



    NOVEMBER 21, 2017
    When there is no evidence of the existence of any excepton, then Vatican Council II does not contradict Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, the Nicene Creed, the past ecclesiology and the Syllabus of Errors.It is in harmony with Tradition
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/when-there-is-no-evidence-of-existence.html

    NOVEMBER 21, 2017
    Vatican Council II(Feeneyite) in harmony with Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus( Feeneyite)
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/vatican-council-iifeeneyite-in-harmony.html

    March 17, 2017
    The practical result now is that Vatican Council II can be interpreted as a rupture or a continuity with the past, depending upon the use of the irrational premise; invisible cases are visible or not visible in 2017.
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/03/the-practical-result-now-is-that.html

    DECEMBER 4, 2017
    Be aware of the crude interpretation of Vatican Council II done by Christopher Ferrara, Roberto dei Mattei, Atila Guimares and others
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/12/be-aware-of-crude-interpretation-of.html

    NOVEMBER 16, 2017
    SSPX must not waste time.Affirm Vatican Council II (premise-free) : appeal to Card.Ladaria to do the same
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/sspx-must-stop-wasting-time-and-affirm.html


    -Lionel Andrades

    RELEVANT LABELS/ TAGS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THIS BLOG


  • Vatican Council II( premise free)(2)
  • Vatican Council II(Cushingite).(5)
  • Vatican Council II(Feeneyite)(8)
  • Vatican Council II(premise free)(2)
  • Vatican Council II(premise-free)(6)







  • ____________________________________

    JANUARY 27, 2018

    What is Feeneyism? (Graphics)

    JANUARY 27, 2018

    What is Cushingism ?(Graphics)



    DECEMBER 9, 2017


    Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise) 

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/12/vatican-cdfecclesia-dei-has-no.html  

    Tuesday, January 30, 2018

    So it all starts from St. Emerentiana ...

    For me St. Emerentiana is a saint in Heaven and so is there with the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. If she did not have the baptism of water in the Catholic Church she could not be in Heaven and so not a saint.The normal means of salvation is faith and baptism(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).For us humans there can be no known exception to the normal way of salvation.
    For me St. Emerentiana is a saint in Heaven but with the baptism of water given in a manner known only to God.
    For Ann Barnhardt, St.Emerentiana is a saint in Heaven with the baptism of desire or baptism of blood and without the baptism of water. So St.Emerentiana is an exception to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). Emerentiana  is an exception to the strict interpretation of the dogma on outside the Church there is no salvation.
    For me St. Emerentiana could not be physically seen in Heaven without the baptism of water. There are no objective cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance.No one in the past saw her in Heaven.
    Since St.Emerentiana is an exception to the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS for Ann Barnhardt, she infers, that there are known cases of the baptism  of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I).There would have to be visible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I for Ann Barnhardt.Invisible people cannot be exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS.
    So we have two ways of reasoning.
    And we both apply them to Vatican Council II.
    We come to Vatican Council II with two different premises.
    Ann can see invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc and I cannot.
    So Ann interprets all hypothetical cases (physically invisible) mentioned in Vatican Council II(LG 16 etc) as being known people saved outside the Church who are exceptions to EENS.
    I interpret all hypothetical cases mentioned in Vatican Council II as referring to personally unknown people in 2018.They are not exceptions to EENS .Neither are they examples of salvation outside the Church. They just don't exist in our reality.
    So LG 16,UR 3,LG 8, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II  are not a rupture with Tradition for me.
    For Ann they have to be a rupture with Tradition.Since there are visible exceptions to the dogma EENS and the Syllabus of Errors for her.Vatican Council II is a break with the past.
    So how we look at the St. Emerentiana issue decides how we interpret Vatican Council II.





    How we read the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 indicates how we will interpret Vatican Council.
    It is the difference between two theologies, Cushingism( we can see people in Heaven) and Feeneyism( we physically cannot see them).One theology says people in the past(St.Emerentiana) are exceptions to EENS in the present (Cushingism) and the other says that they are not objective cases in 2018 and so are not exceptions to EENS(Feeneyism).
    Now if Ann and the traditionalists would say that it is irrational to assume that invisible cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I are visible exceptions to EENS, then they can  interpret Vatican Council II as being in harmony with the strict interpretation of EENS and the old ecclesiology with an ecumenism of return.Since there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II.This is Feeneyism.

    If they choose Feeneyism as a theology it means Vatican Council II is in harmony with the Syllabus of Errors.

    This would be good news for the SSPX .They could ask for canonical recognition.Since Vatican Council II would no more be a rupture with Tradition. They could demand that the Vatican and the liberal bishops conferences affirm Vatican Council II with rational and traditional Feeneyite theology.
    Vatican Council II(Feeneyite) in harmony with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church was the basis in the past ,for an ecumenism of return, mission based on no salvation outside the Church and the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King.

    So it all starts from St. Emerentiana ...-Lionel Andrades



    JANUARY 30, 2018


    The way you look at St. Emerentiana decides how you interpret Vatican Council II  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/the-way-you-look-at-st-emerentiana.html