The bottom line is that we are all reciting the Nicene Creed but there are two different interpretations

Hi,

I hope you are not mixing me up with the St.Benedict Centers, the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I am not using their apologetics.

The communities in the diocese of Worcester and Manchester USA would be making the same error as the FSSP with Vatican Council II.

The FSSP assumes the baptism of desire (BOD) and blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) refer to known cases saved without the baptism of waterand so they are examples of salvation outside the Church.

The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the communities of Fr.Leonard Feeney, also assume (LG 16( invincible ignorance) and the theoretical case of the catechumen who has the desire for the baptism of water but dies before he receives it (LG 14, AG 7 etc) are exceptions to the dogma EENS.So for them Vatican Council II is a rupture with Tradition.So their inference too, like the FSSP, is that LG 16 etc refer to visible cases in 2017. This is a false inference which produces a false conclusion.

On the Nicene Creed though the St. Benedict Centers are clear that there is only one baptism and it is the baptism of water. They affirm Feeneyite EENS.

However for the FSSP, the SSPX and the F.I (Franciscans of the Immaculate) there are three known baptisms( desire, blood and invincble ignorance).So there are exceptions to Feeneyite EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I for them. There are exceptions to the Nicene Creed when it states ' I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins'.

Ask them: Do you believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. They will say Yes.

Ask them : Are you referring to the baptism of water? They will say Yes.

Ask them : However you also believe there is salvation outside the Church without the baptism of water and with BOD, BOB and I.I? They will say.

Ask them: Is this not contradictory for you? They will say no, with a straight face.

Tell them: That I, Lionel, believe there is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins..There is only one known baptism, the baptism of water.

There are no known baptisms of BOD, BOB and I.I. This is physically not possibile. So there cannot be an exception to the dogma EENS or the NIcene Creed on baptism, for me.

For me, Lionel, there are no exceptions and for the FSSP and the SSPX and the F.I there are exceptions.For methere are no exceptions to 'I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins' for the FSSP and the present magisterium of the Church there are.

So the magisterium like the FSSP have a different understanding, compared to me, of the Nicene Creed, EENS(with or without exceptions), Vatican Council ( with or without the irrational premise), the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( with or without the irrational premise) and the other Catechisms which mention invincible ignorance( with or without the premise).

The bottom line is that we are all reciting the Nicene Creed but there are two different interpretations.

One interpretation says there are no practical exceptions and the other says there are.

One is traditional and rational and the other is heretical and not rational.

So can the bishop make the Traditional Latin Mass available with FSSP priests, who like me, are traditional and rational when interpreting the Nicene Creed, Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents?

Can the bishop be shown the difference in the two interpretations, mine and all of theirs, and be asked to comment ?

How can lay people who attend the Traditional Latin Mass accept the irrational and non traditional version of the Nicene Creed when they have an option in my interpretation?

This is the stuff for a Canon Lawyer to take up with the bishop in Denver.

Would you know of a Canonist there in Denver with whom I can communicate?

-Lionel Andrades

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.