Of course the baptism of blood, baptism of desire
and invincible ignorance are RELEVANT to
extra ecclesiam null salus for the
and invincible ignorance are RELEVANT to
extra ecclesiam null salus for the
Catholic Church has taught
them for centuries which can NOT be
denied.
denied.
If they are relevant for you then it would
mean they refer to visible and personally known cases.
When the Catholic Church mentions them
it is obviously to
it is obviously to
speculative and theoretical cases. Since they
cannot be any thing else.
cannot be any thing else.
It is the present magisterium ( since the
time of Pope Pius XII) which infers that
they are visible cases.
time of Pope Pius XII) which infers that
they are visible cases.
At the same time you have told me that
they cannot be physically seen or known
in the present times.
they cannot be physically seen or known
in the present times.
This is a contradiction?
Where do you get that we know those Saints
in Heaven who have died in Inv. Ign?
in Heaven who have died in Inv. Ign?
You have said that Invincible Ignorance is
relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
You have accepted the Letter of the Holy
Office 1949.
relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
You have accepted the Letter of the Holy
Office 1949.
So you infer that you and the Church knows
of people saved in I.I otherwise how could
they be relevant or exceptions to EENS if
they were invisible cases?
of people saved in I.I otherwise how could
they be relevant or exceptions to EENS if
they were invisible cases?
Where does the Church say that there
are VISIBLE saints known to us on
earth that have died due to
are VISIBLE saints known to us on
earth that have died due to
Invincible Ignorance ?
The Church only refers to saints being
in Heaven.
in Heaven.
If they have said that there is someone
in Heaven without the baptism of water
then the Church has contradicted the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
in Heaven without the baptism of water
then the Church has contradicted the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So I ask where does the Church say that
there are known cases of people in Heaven
saved with invincible ignorance or baptism
of desire BOD and if they do make this
claim how would they know?
there are known cases of people in Heaven
saved with invincible ignorance or baptism
of desire BOD and if they do make this
claim how would they know?
How can they contradict
extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS)?
Since BOD and I.I cannot be known
on earth by any one in the Church,
how can they reject the traditional
teaching on EENS?
on earth by any one in the Church,
how can they reject the traditional
teaching on EENS?
-Lionel Andrades
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