Monday, October 10, 2016

I even interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1995) as being Feeneyite. I use the same reasoning : hypothetical cases are not explicit in the present times.

You don't have a problem with the Catechism of Pope Pius X but it teaches Feeneyism? Is that what you're saying?
Lionel:
Yes!
I even interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1995) as being Feeneyite.
I use the same reasoning : hypothetical cases are not explicit in the present times.
The baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance do not refer to objective cases, personally known in the present times. So in the words of John Martignoni, they are 'zero cases' with references to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Similarly Vatican Council II is also Feeneyite since LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc refer to hypothetical cases and so they are not exceptions to the dogma EENS or Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

The Letter of the Holy Office says that it is not required that a person be incorporated into the Church as a member for salvation while the Catechism of Pius X says it is necessary.

You have misrepresent Pope St. Pius X because he also said in question 29...
29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church,
can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he
is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the
implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the
truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed
separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of
the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation.
Lionel:
Yes.
So is this a reference to an invisible or visible case in 2016 ?I don't have a problem with it.
___________________________________


AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.

Pope St. Pius X officially promulgated his catechism 1912. You know
better than Pope St. Pius X?
Lionel:
It is a good Catechism. It is Feeneyite. I would recommend it.
However as the liberal theologians did, I would not recommend that you infer 29Q as being explicit, visible, seen in the flesh in 2016.
The same with the Baltimore Catechism. Do not interpret the baptism of desire as being explicit and repeatable like the baptism of water.
Accept it as only a possibility known to God and it could be followed with the baptism of water.Either way, with or without the baptism of water, it  refers to an imaginary case for us. So it is not relevant to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma EENS.Pope Pius XII made a
mistake.
________________________________


Are you going to admit that you're wrong again?
Lionel:
I said Pope Piux XII and the Archbishop of Boston contradict the Catechism of Pope Pius X.
The Letter of the Holy Office says that it is not required that a person be incorporated into the Church as a member for salvation while the Catechism of Pius X says it is necessary.

-Lionel Andrades

For there to be an exception an exception must exist and it must be different. If there is an apple in a box of oranges then the apple is an exception there in that box since it is different -but also since it exists in that box. The baptism of desire without the baptism of water would be an exception to the dogma EENS - but it does not exist in our reality!


You said, "You and the present magisterium are interpreting baptism of desire as being 'visible'"

What on earth are you talking about?? What does this mean??   You need to be specific on what you are referring to by "visible". Give some very short and very specific examples. You are the ONLY person that keeps saying this over and over and no one knows what you are talking about. You are hung up on something that no one else is.

Lionel:
I understand this. Thanks for mentioning it.I appreciate your sincerity.
It's really simple.
For there to be an exception an exception must exist and it must be different.
If there is an apple in a box of oranges then the apple is an exception there in that box since it is different -but also since it exists in that box.
The baptism of desire without the baptism of water would be an exception to the dogma EENS - but it does not exist in our reality!
There is no known baptism of desire case in 2016 you would agree with me.
Yet for you and the present magisterium the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma EENS.
O.K.
So it means there is a known, physically visible case in 2016 for you'll since BOD is an exception to EENS.It  excludes the baptism of water for you'll and  it exists in your reality.
-Lionel Andrades

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Goria TV :Pope Francis announced the creation of 17 new cardinals. Among them there is not a single Catholic voice. Three of the 17 are radical liberals and killers of vocations

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No Catholic: Yesterday, Pope Francis announced the creation of 17 new cardinals. Among them there is not a single Catholic voice. Three of the 17 are radical liberals and killers of vocations: Archbishop Cupich of Chicago, Bishop Kevin Joseph … [More]

Vatican Council II and the Catechism of Pope Pius X are Feeneyite.They contradict Pope Pius XII,the Archbishop of Boston and the U.S Jesuits.Confusion arises with 29Q which can be interpreted as being visible or invisible


Vatican Council II and the Catechism of Pope Pius X are  Feeneyite.They  support Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston.They contradict Pope Pius XII,the Archbishop of Boston and the U.S Jesuits. Numbers 24Q and 27Q in the Catechism are Feeneyite.Confusion arises with 29Q which  can be interpreted as being visible or invisible.

Vatican Council II(AG 7, LG 14) and the Catechism of Pope Pius X  are Feeneyite for me. They say all need to be incorporated into the Catholic Church as members for salvation.
They do not say that there is known salvation outside the Church.They do not say that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicit.So invincible ignorance and the catechumen who desires the baptism of water refer to hypothetical cases and not known cases in 2016.The text does not say it directly however one choose wrongly to make the inference.One can infer that there are references to visible for us in 2016 being saved in invincible ignorance without the baptism of water.
So Vatican Council II and the Catechism of Pope Pius X support  Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston and contradict Pope Pius XII and the Archbishop of Boston only when hypothetical cases are not assumed to be defacto known ; invisible cases are not assumed to be visible and what is accepted in principle ( dejure) is not assumed to be known defacto( in reality).
 In the Catechism of Pope Pius X see numbers 24Q and 27Q which are pro-Fr.Leonard Feeney.1
Confusion today comes with 29Q.2
It can be interpreted as being visible or invisible.If 29Q  refers to visible cases in 2016, people personally known who are saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church, then 29Q contradicts 24Q and 27Q. As I mentioned in a previous blog post I call this the  Cushingite interpretation of the Catechism of Pope Pius X.
For
Cushingites there are known exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).This was the traditional intepretation.
The dogma EENS is no more like it was for the 16th century missionaries. It is a rupture with St. Robert Bellamine, St. Francis of Assisi and St. Francis Xavier.It has the hermeneutic of rupture also with the three Church Councils which defined this dogma ex cathedra.
For me 29Q refers to an invisible case.So it is not an exception to 24Q and 27Q.
So the Catechism of Pope Pius X is Feeneyite and not Cushingite for me.

All need to be living members of the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell.No one can be saved outside the Church.

It is with this rational reasoning that I interpret Vatican Council II as not being a rupture with the Catechism of Pope Pius X. It does not contradict the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
as it was known to the 16th century missionaries.

Vatican Council II  amd the Catechism of Pope Pius X  also do not contradict the Syllabus of Errors and the rest of Tradition.

For the traditionalists and the Vatican Curia, Vatican Council II is a rupture with Tradition.Since Lumen Gentium 16( invincible ignorance) refers
to a visible case.The error emerges with the inference.
For me the Catholic Church teaches, before and after Vatican Council II,  that all Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Protestants,atheists and other non Catholics,need to be incorporated into the Church as members for salvation.-Lionel Andrades 
 
1.
 24 Q. To be saved, is it enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church?
A. No, to be saved it is not enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church; it is necessary to be a living member.
 
27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church
 
 
2.
 29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
 A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation

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October 9, 2016



The Catechism of Pope Pius X is Feeneyite.It supports Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston and contradicts Pope Pius XII and the Archbishop of Boston. See numbers 24Q and 27Q.Confusion today comes with 29Q. It can be interpreted as being visible or invisible.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/10/the-catechism-of-pope-pius-x-is.html