Friday, September 30, 2016

There are hundreds of reports on line on this issue.When will someone tell Pope Benedict the truth?

    • Comments From Mundabor's blog : Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus
  1. Mundabor;
    Here is the B16 {oops, sorry…Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI Joseph Ratzinger LOL } interview:
    And an assessment in English for those of us that can’t read the original!
    Quote:
    “The missionaries of the 16th century were convinced that the unbaptized person is lost forever. After the [Second Vatican] Council, this conviction was definitely abandoned. The result was a two-sided, deep crisis. Without this attentiveness to the salvation, the Faith loses its foundation.”
    You’ll see in the interview there appears to be a sense of internal conflict in P-E BXVI. He frankly admits the obvious {the dogma has been dumped after V2} but isn’t really clear as to WHO he thinks dumped it; the CHURCH {She can’t} or the “culture” of the Church, or prelates, or faithful, or…who…B16 himself? But we all know that the essential teaching of the dogma has been ignored at best and completely rejected in practice for most Catholics, and I’d add Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope himself there as well if clarity of speech means anything anymore. Who knows? And if not “abandoned”, it has been redefined so as to be a meaningless dogma as if that were possible.
    • Ha, but it seems to me that he is saying (badly) the contrary: “if you ignore eternal truths, the faith loses its foundation”, or “when V II priests do no tbelieve what the Church has always believed, the Faith loses its foundation”.
      In my eyes, what he is saying is “your garden variety V II priest”, not “the Church” as sacred institution.
      However, the man himself was not better than that i his pontificate: he just ignored the hard points too often.
      M
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but isn’t really clear as to WHO he thinks dumped it; the CHURCH {She can’t} or the “culture” of the Church, or prelates, or faithful, or…who…B16 himself? 

Lionel: They still don't know ( Mundabor included) that the dogma was changed with an irrational premise which is the basis of the new theology. Set aside the new theology and we are back to the old ecclesiology. The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus will not have changed.
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But we all know that the essential teaching of the dogma has been ignored at best and completely rejected in practice for most Catholics, and I’d add Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope himself there as well if clarity of speech means anything anymore. Who knows? And if not “abandoned”, it has been redefined so as to be a meaningless dogma as if that were possible.

Lionel:The dogma has been made meaningless since it is assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance and the catechumen who desired the baptism of water but died before receiving in, referred to personally known, cases, visible in our reality.It was also assumed that these cases were saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.Invisible cases were assumed to be visible persons who were exceptios to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So since allegedly there was known salvation outside the Church, every one did not have to be incorporated into the Church as a member for salvation. The dogma had been discarded. The excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney was maintained for some 19 plus years, right through Vatican Council II.
Vatican Councl II also mentions these invisible cases as if they are visible. This cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit.This is an objective mistake in Vatican Council II.
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Ha, but it seems to me that he is saying (badly) the contrary: “if you ignore eternal truths, the faith loses its foundation”, or “when V II priests do no tbelieve what the Church has always believed, the Faith loses its foundation”.

Lionel:There are a hundreds of reports on line on this issue.When will someone tell Pope Benedict the truth?

-Lionel Andrades



Catholic faith teaches : All Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Orthodox Christians and other non Catholics in 2016 are oriented to the fires of Hell unless they are incorporated into the Catholic Church as members, with 'faith and baptism'

All Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Orthodox Christians and other non Catholics in 2016 are oriented to the fires of Hell unless they are incorporated into the Catholic Church as members, with 'faith and baptism' (Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14), Cantate Domino Council of Florence 1441, Dominus Iesus 20, Nicene Creed, Athanasius Creed etc). So I affirm Vatican Council II with the old ecclesiology.
 
The difference between me and the First Signatories of the  'Declaration of fidelity to the Church's unchangable teaching on marriage'  is :-
1.All the signatoris would be rejecting the traditional teaching on exclusive salvation in the Church 'which comes to us from the Apostles.'
2.All the signatories assume that the baptism of desire refers to visible cases and so is an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
3.The signatories suppose that we can see these hypothetical cases objectively on earth. So they are exceptions to the Church's constant magisterium.
-Lionel Andrades
 

September 29, 2016
What about a Declaration of fideltiy to the Church's unchangable teaching on salvation which has been changed and accepted by all the signatories of the Declaration of fidelity to the Church's unchangable teaching on marriage ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/09/what-about-declaration-of-fideltiy-to.html

So it cannot be said that I am a traditionalist who rejects Vatican Council II. Neither can it be said by the traditionalists that I reject EENS( Feeneyite)

Cannoli
Here I have affirmed the Catholic Faith according to Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS Feeneyite).You can place it on a Jewish or Muslim website or forum, as you suggested I do.

So for me EENS( Feeneyite) and Vatican Council II (Feeneyite) says all Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Orthodox Christians and other non Catholics are oriented to the fires of Hell unless they are incorporated into the Catholic Church as members, with 'faith and baptism'(AG 7, LG 14).So I affirm Vatican Council II with the old ecclesiology.For me the new ecclesiology of Catholic Answers and the FSSP is heretical, irrational and an innovation in the Church. It causes the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition.It can be avoided by Catholic Answers. A rational choice is there.
So it cannot be said that I am a traditionalist who rejects Vatican Council II. Neither can it be said by the traditionalists that I reject EENS( Feeneyite).

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/at-catholic-ans…

I am a Catholic.I was baptised in the Catholic Church as an infant.All my life I have been a Catholic.Pope Francis is my pope though when he contradicts Tradition and previous popes, I reject what he says.