Rod Halvorsen | September 21, 2016 at 4:16 pm
Mundabor;Here is the B16 {oops, sorry…Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI Joseph Ratzinger LOL } interview:http://www.avvenire.it/Cultura/Pagine/Facciamoci-plasmare-da-Cristo-.aspxAnd an assessment in English for those of us that can’t read the original!https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-emeritus-benedict-says-church-is-now-facing-a-two-sided-deep-crisisQuote:“The missionaries of the 16th century were convinced that the unbaptized person is lost forever. After the [Second Vatican] Council, this conviction was definitely abandoned. The result was a two-sided, deep crisis. Without this attentiveness to the salvation, the Faith loses its foundation.”You’ll see in the interview there appears to be a sense of internal conflict in P-E BXVI. He frankly admits the obvious {the dogma has been dumped after V2} but isn’t really clear as to WHO he thinks dumped it; the CHURCH {She can’t} or the “culture” of the Church, or prelates, or faithful, or…who…B16 himself? But we all know that the essential teaching of the dogma has been ignored at best and completely rejected in practice for most Catholics, and I’d add Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope himself there as well if clarity of speech means anything anymore. Who knows? And if not “abandoned”, it has been redefined so as to be a meaningless dogma as if that were possible.Mundabor | September 21, 2016 at 6:16 pm
Ha, but it seems to me that he is saying (badly) the contrary: “if you ignore eternal truths, the faith loses its foundation”, or “when V II priests do no tbelieve what the Church has always believed, the Faith loses its foundation”.In my eyes, what he is saying is “your garden variety V II priest”, not “the Church” as sacred institution.However, the man himself was not better than that i his pontificate: he just ignored the hard points too often.M
but isn’t really clear as to WHO he thinks dumped it; the CHURCH {She can’t} or the “culture” of the Church, or prelates, or faithful, or…who…B16 himself?
Lionel: They still don't know ( Mundabor included) that the dogma was changed with an irrational premise which is the basis of the new theology. Set aside the new theology and we are back to the old ecclesiology. The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus will not have changed.
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But we all know that the essential teaching of the dogma has been ignored at best and completely rejected in practice for most Catholics, and I’d add Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope himself there as well if clarity of speech means anything anymore. Who knows? And if not “abandoned”, it has been redefined so as to be a meaningless dogma as if that were possible.
Lionel:The dogma has been made meaningless since it is assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance and the catechumen who desired the baptism of water but died before receiving in, referred to personally known, cases, visible in our reality.It was also assumed that these cases were saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.Invisible cases were assumed to be visible persons who were exceptios to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So since allegedly there was known salvation outside the Church, every one did not have to be incorporated into the Church as a member for salvation. The dogma had been discarded. The excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney was maintained for some 19 plus years, right through Vatican Council II.
Vatican Councl II also mentions these invisible cases as if they are visible. This cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit.This is an objective mistake in Vatican Council II.
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Ha, but it seems to me that he is saying (badly) the contrary: “if you ignore eternal truths, the faith loses its foundation”, or “when V II priests do no tbelieve what the Church has always believed, the Faith loses its foundation”.
Lionel:There are a hundreds of reports on line on this issue.When will someone tell Pope Benedict the truth?
-Lionel Andrades
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