Wednesday, August 3, 2016

Now it is being asked who was this catechumen who was originally saved without the baptism of water which he desired before death ? How could there be a known case? How could any one know of any one who is saved without the baptism of water ?

  1. Comments from the blog The Eponymous Flower : Archbishop Pozzo: Bishop Fellay to Accept Personal Prelature Arrangement
     
  2. Lionel:
    You tell me.
    Can you physically see people in Heaven?
    Can you see or meet someone in 2016 who is also Heaven?
    Can there be known cases of people saved with the baptism of desire and without the baptism of water?
    Then ask yourself how do the SSPX priests and bishops answer the above questions.

    Is their theology and doctrines based on there being known people on earth saved without the baptism of water, who are explicit exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation?
    Then what about Vatican Council II? Can this reasoning be applied to Vatican Council II?
  3. Lionel....for God's sake (literally!), you're arguing over ONE point, that may or may not be faulty, I stand on the latter side along with a LONG list of Saints, Doctors, and Trent....

    http://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

    http://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

    We've got bergog-lio systematically dismantling the CHurch with every manner of heresy and persecution, and you're pulling this out of your butt to pick a (losing) fight?

    Boniface was right. What the hell is wrong with you?


  4. this was meant to be the second link....

    http://www.catholicessentials.net/baptismofdesire.htm


  5. Lionel:
    Susan,
    I asked you those questions( above) and you have not still thought them through.
    ____________________

    Lionel....for God's sake (literally!), you're arguing over ONE point, that may or may not be faulty, I stand on the latter side along with a LONG list of Saints, Doctors, and Trent....

    Lionel: No you don't! Since either you or I stand with a long list of ....One of us has to be wrong.We both cannot be correct.
    __________________

    http://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

    Lionel: If you cannot answer the above questions please don't send me these links. I have responded to them numerous times on my blog over some six years.
    _________________________

    ________________________

    We've got bergog-lio systematically...
    Lionel: The SSPX is in line with the heresy of the two popes.But then how would you know ? You are not willing to even discuss the issue.
    In these links you imply that these BOD cases refer to personally known cases.Then you infer that they are exceptions to EENS.Otherwise why mention it. If they were not physically visible to you how could they be relevant or exceptions to the dogma EENS.
    Susan, BOD never had anything to do with the dogma EENS in the first place.Over the centuries those who wanted to eliminate the dogma were putting it forward. The saints and popes with good will would say that a person could be saved as such. They knew that these were hypothetical cases.

    Now it is being asked who was this catechumen who was originally saved without the baptism of water which he desired before death ? How could there be a known case? How could any one know of any one who is saved without the baptism of water ? Since this person would have to have a special gift to go to Heaven and return to tell us about it.Do you understand what I am saying?
    The baptism of desire was a strawman from the very beginning.
    This irrational reasoning was them placed in Vatican Council II.

    ___________________

    Boniface was right.
    Lionel: Boniface like you, will not answer the above questions.
    His theology is based on their being physically known cases of the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance.

    _________________

    What the hell is wrong with you?
    Lionel: I am affirming the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church. I am affirming EENS and the baptism of desire( implict for us). I accept Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and reject Vatican Council II( Cushingite.
    The SSPX is irrational. They only understand a Cushingite Vatican Council II. They interpret EENS with known exceptions( Cushingism) and they assume the baptsm of desire is physically explicit for us in 2016 and so it is an exception to the Feeneyite interpretation of EENS( Cushingism).This is heresy approved by the contemporary magisterium.It is a rupture with EENS as it was known to St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Francis Xavier, St. Maximmilian Kolbe....

    I am saying Islam,Judaism and other religions are not paths to salvation(AG 7, LG 14), according to Vatican Council II, you are saying they are and you reject Vatican Council II.
    The two popes also  interpret Vatican Council II like you but do not reject it.
    I am saying that there are no references in Vatican Council II, which negate the exclusivist ecclesiology which says all Muslims and Jews are on the path to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.The SSPX says there are.So they reject Vatican Council II . I accept it.The SSPX is line with the liberals.Their reasoning is the same.While they differ from me.
    Why? Answer those questions and you will know.

    -Lionel Andrades


  6. Lionel:
    Susan,
    Phone up the apologist John Martignoni(EWTN diocese under Bishop Robert Baker) and discuss those basic questions I have mentioned above.
    Ask him if there are any baptism of desire cases in his diocese.When was the last time he met someone saved in invincible ignorance with or without the baptism of water?
    I have also quoted Fr. S.Visintin osb, Dean of Theology at the St.Anselm Pontifical University in Rome. He speaks English.Call him up.
    -Lionel Andrades
  7. p.s Excuse the numbers on the left hand side. I am unable to delete them.

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