Lionel, you keep saying baptism of desire is an exception to EENS. It is not. It is an affirmation of EENS, which says one must be joined to the Church formally or in desire to be saved. There are no exceptions to EENS.
Lionel:
I agree with you it is not an exception to EENS.It is not even relevant to EENS.It does not contradict the affirmation of EENS which says one must be joined to the Church formally ( with faith and baptism) or with desire ( followed by the baptism of water).
There are no exceptions to EENS, for me too.
1.However the Letter of the Holy Officed 1949 accepted by the magisterium, the SSPX and the sedevacantists considers being saved with the baptism of desire and blood- as excluding the baptism of water.This would make it an exception to EENS.
2.The International Theological Commission paper, Christianity and the World Religions (1997) criticizes Fr.Leonard Feeney for the rigorist interpretation of the dogma EENS and not recognising the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance as an exception to all needing to enter the Church.In other words these cases were known to be different from the general rule,which says faith and the baptism of water, for adults, is necessary for salvation.
The ITC says Pope Pius XII criticizes Fr. Leonard Feeney for his interpretation of EENS.Meaning there were exceptions which existed and the priest would not accept this.
3.Similarly the offical website of the SSPX says there are three baptisms and criticizes Fr. Leonard Feeney for denying that a person can be saved with the baptism of desire etc with reference to his traditional 'strict' intepretation of EENS.So the SSPX is saying not every one needs to enter the Church in the present times.There are certain people under certain conditions who do not.While Fr. Feeney was saying this is nonsense.
4.Then Vatican Council II (LG 14) suggests not every one needs to enter the Church but only those who know. Those who are in invincible ignorance do not need to enter the Church. They are in an exemption category?
5.The Baltimore Catechism has placed the baptism of desire in the Baptism Section.So the theoretical case of a catechumen who dies before receiving the baptism of water is also a baptism like the baptism of water.A person can be saved even without the baptism of water.There is an exemption here to the general rule on the necessity of the baptism of water.6.Similarly Catholic Answers and EWTN, do not hold the strict interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney which says all need the baptism of water and Catholic faith, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.They say that not all need to enter the Church.Why? Since a person can be saved with the baptism of desire etc.In other words these are personally known people who do not need the baptism of water to go to Heaven. They are excempted from the general, traditional rule on salvation.
I agree with you it is not an exception to EENS.It is not even relevant to EENS.It does not contradict the affirmation of EENS which says one must be joined to the Church formally ( with faith and baptism) or with desire ( followed by the baptism of water).
There are no exceptions to EENS, for me too.
1.However the Letter of the Holy Officed 1949 accepted by the magisterium, the SSPX and the sedevacantists considers being saved with the baptism of desire and blood- as excluding the baptism of water.This would make it an exception to EENS.
2.The International Theological Commission paper, Christianity and the World Religions (1997) criticizes Fr.Leonard Feeney for the rigorist interpretation of the dogma EENS and not recognising the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance as an exception to all needing to enter the Church.In other words these cases were known to be different from the general rule,which says faith and the baptism of water, for adults, is necessary for salvation.
The ITC says Pope Pius XII criticizes Fr. Leonard Feeney for his interpretation of EENS.Meaning there were exceptions which existed and the priest would not accept this.
3.Similarly the offical website of the SSPX says there are three baptisms and criticizes Fr. Leonard Feeney for denying that a person can be saved with the baptism of desire etc with reference to his traditional 'strict' intepretation of EENS.So the SSPX is saying not every one needs to enter the Church in the present times.There are certain people under certain conditions who do not.While Fr. Feeney was saying this is nonsense.
4.Then Vatican Council II (LG 14) suggests not every one needs to enter the Church but only those who know. Those who are in invincible ignorance do not need to enter the Church. They are in an exemption category?
5.The Baltimore Catechism has placed the baptism of desire in the Baptism Section.So the theoretical case of a catechumen who dies before receiving the baptism of water is also a baptism like the baptism of water.A person can be saved even without the baptism of water.There is an exemption here to the general rule on the necessity of the baptism of water.6.Similarly Catholic Answers and EWTN, do not hold the strict interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney which says all need the baptism of water and Catholic faith, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.They say that not all need to enter the Church.Why? Since a person can be saved with the baptism of desire etc.In other words these are personally known people who do not need the baptism of water to go to Heaven. They are excempted from the general, traditional rule on salvation.
So just about every one out there is saying there are exceptions.The exception, is the St. Benedict Centers in the USA.-Lionel Andrades
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