Comments from the blog Vox Cantoris : "I can say yes. Period!"
Mark Thomas said...
Vox, my dear brother in Jesus Christ. We need to place Pope Francis'
"I can say yes, many (pr "period") remark in context.
Lionel:
He is saying that doctrine has
changed based on the new
moral and salvation theology
approved by Pope Benedict and
which is being taught in the
pontifical universities and
seminaries for a long time.
So Cardinal Burke and
Fr.Zuhlsdorf could probably
also say that there is no
change in doctrine.
Pope Francis could mean
that there are known
exceptions to the traditional
teaching on mortal sin.
Last month Pope Benedict
announced via Avvenire
that there are known
exceptions in Vatican Council II
to the 16th century
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So the new moral theology is
that the conditions for
mortal sin mentioned in the
Catechism edited by Cardinal
Ratzinger and Schonborn,
refer not to hypothetical cases,
known only to God ,but to defacto,
objectively known cases which
can be identified by us humans.
So even if someone is in
objective mortal sin,we cannot
say so, since there could be
'known factors' which make the
case an exception.
So the two popes like Cardinal
Burke and Fr.Z and the numerous
religious who have had their
formation at the Angelicum etc
will say that there is no change
in doctrine.
Cardinal Kasper has already given
an interview to the Tablet
saying that everything has
changed but there is no
change in doctrine.
_____________________
It is vital that we read farther in that Pope Francis
said that we must "read the presentation of
Cardinal Schonborn, who is a great theologian.
Lionel:
Cardinal Schonborn accepts the
new theology.For him there
are known exceptions to the
traditional teachings on morals
and faith.So this is the
doctrine of the Church for him.
He means this is the doctrine
of the contemporary magisterium.
The reasoning of this theology is
irrational and heretical but it
is official.
It is a break with the moral
theology of the centuries before the
Council of Trent.They did not
assume that there were
known exceptions, people
seen in Heaven, who were
there in mortal sin(moral theology)
or who were not members of the
Catholic Church (new salvation
theology).
____________________
He was the secretary for the Congregation of
the Doctrine of the Faith, and he knows the
doctrine of the faith well. In that presentation,
your question will find an answer."
Lionel:
The Catechism mentions the
conditions for mortal sin.
These conditions are
hypothetical and known
only to God. For Cardinal
Schonborn these conditions
are explicit and are also
known to man. So they
become known exceptions
to the traditional teaching
on mortal sin.
He also accepted the
International Theological
Commission's papers.
Christianity and the World
Religions (ITC,1997) indicates
that there are known
exceptions to the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla
salus.Where are these
known exceptions in 2016.
Do you know of anybody saved
without 'faith and
baptism' ?
________________________
Cardinal Schonborn stated clearly at the press
Cardinal Schonborn stated clearly at the press
conference that there is "no break"..."no change"
to the question at hand. He also noted that the
"controversial" footnote referred to Confession.
Lionel:
He means there is no break with
the moral theology based on an
irrationality(the new moral theology).
He assumes we humans
He assumes we humans
can know of Catholics
living in manifest mortal sin,
but who will not go to Hell.Or he
assumes that we can know of
of people who were living in
mortal sin and who are now known
to be in Heaven.
Cardinal Burke also noted that
what is being taught in Amoris
Laetitia (AL) is part of the general
teaching of the Church.So AL
was acceptable for him.
Prof. Joseph Shaw at the blog
LMS Chairman also says it
is part of the contemporary
official theology.So for him
too doctrine had not been
changed.
_________________
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn was tapped to present
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn was tapped to present
Amoris Laetitia to the news media. His Holiness
Pope Francis didn't do anything wrong in having
referred us to Cardinal Schonborn's official
presentation of Amoris Laetitia to the world.
The Cardinal spoke on behalf of the Church during
The Cardinal spoke on behalf of the Church during
the press conference in question.
Lionel:
He did not speak on behalf of me.
I do not interpret magisterial
documents assuming there
are known exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus or the traditional
teaching on mortal sin.
_______________
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn has made it clear that
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn has made it clear that
the Church's teachings on family, marriage, divorce
and new "unions" stand.
Lionel:
Only in theory. Doctrine and
praxis has been changed.
________________
Familiaris Consortio stands, as Cardinal Schonborn
made clear.
Lionel:
No it does not stand any more.
Doctrine on mortal
sin has been changed.AL
reflects the new moral theology,
with new doctrines on morals.
The old ecclesiology,
the old moral theology has
been rejected.
This happened when Pope
Benedict was the Prefect
for the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith.His
Catechism of the Catholic Church
supports the new faith and moral
theology.
___________________
The "controversy" is settled. The conservatives
The "controversy" is settled. The conservatives
last week were correct when they declared
that Amoris Laetitia rejected the revolutionary
forces within the Church who had wished to
employ the Exhortation to redefine marriage
and sodomy.
Lionel:
The dogma EENS has been rejected.
So now when a Catholic marries a
Jew or Protestant it is not
considered adultery and a mortal
sin.
Since there is salvation outside
the Church ( new salvation
theology/Cushingism) and there
are known exceptions to mortal
sin ( the couple could be an
exception for various hypothetical
reasons).
Wake up Thomas!
_____________________
Vox, the revolutionaries won't quit. But Amoris
Vox, the revolutionaries won't quit. But Amoris
Laetitia routed their goal to destroy the Church's
teachings in regard to family, marriage, and sexuality.
Lionel:
AL is the official approval
of the new moral theology
based on hypothetical cases
being objectively known
exceptions, and the exceptions
making the new rule.It supports
the errors of Fr. Charles
Curran and his moral theology
professor Bernard Haring,
at the pontifical
university Alphonsonianum
in Rome.
______________________
The Apostolic See presented Amoris Laetitia in the
The Apostolic See presented Amoris Laetitia in the
light of Holy Tradition.
Lionel:
No it did not.
Since hypothetical cases cannot
be known exceptions
to the dogma EENS or to the
traditional teaching on
mortal sin.
Priests who interpret Vatican
Council II in which there are
no known exceptions in Vatican
Council to EENS cannot be
incardinated.
Those who pretend that there
are known exceptions
have no problem.
Vox, you are a holy man who loves Jesus Christ and his
teachings on family and marriage. You won, Vox. Vox,
the Truth won.
Pax.
Pax.
Lionel:
Mark in the past you still not have
discussed what I have written.
I am not saying anything new
here. Ask your self : if you
assumed Lumen Gentium 16
( invincible ignorance) referred
to invisible cases in 2016
would LG 16 be an explicit
exception to the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas
Video : https://youtu.be/TmyvjEeFnsA
http://www.theinterim.com/issues/religion/roman-catholic-theologian-rebuffed/
Corrupters Of Morality
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr35/cr35pg10.asp
John Vennari : Boston Conference 4 (April 22,2016)
https://youtu.be/m3jJ0lcuJKU
Corrupters Of Morality
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr35/cr35pg10.asp
John Vennari : Boston Conference 4 (April 22,2016)
https://youtu.be/m3jJ0lcuJKU
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