Saturday, August 15, 2015

Can the Athanasius Creed be recited in Church today ? Yes!

Since 1885 the Catholic Church has subtly changed its teaching on salvation since it is inferred that being saved with implicit desire and martyrdom  are 'baptisms' in other words  they are like the baptism of water , which is explicit, visible and repeatable.
Implicit desire/ Baptism of desire(BOD) and martyrdom/baptism of blood(BOB) was linked indirectly to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) in the Catechism of Pope Pius X , where it is suggested(by the way the text is placed) that every one needs to enter the Church except for those with the BOD or  BOB. In other words  these cases are explicit, seen in the flesh and so are exceptions to the dogma EENS.They would have to be explicit to be exceptions to EENS.
Then in 1949 the change was complete when the same argument  was repeated.The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston criticized Fr.Leonard Feeney and the St.Benedict Center for not accepting BOD and BOB as baptisms and exceptions to the traditional ( pre-1885) understanding of EENS.
The Church in 1949 was slowly and boldly saying there was salvation outside the church, there were known cases of people saved without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.
So now the old Athanasius Creed  which said outside the Church there is no salvation , no more seemed valid.The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995) suggested  there  is salvation outside the Church.Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger accepted the Pius XII Error.

The Catholic Church taught for centuries that all needed to convert for salvation but now something new was added. A new element was brought it.BOD and BOB were made relevant.
1.It was assumed that being saved with implicit desire or martyrdom was a known baptism.Even though no specific case was known or could be known in 1885 or 1908 when the two new catechisms were issued.
2.These cases excluded the baptism of water.This was assumed even though no empirical case could be known .
3.These cases were known to us in the present times( 1885 in Baltimore, USA, 1908 in Rome, 1995 Vatican City).How could they be known to human beings?
So the Athansius Creed could no more be recited because of the general new understanding of salvation.
The Baltimore and Pope Pius X Catechisms suggested BOD and BOB were baptisms without the baptism of water, the Letter of the Holy Office accepted this along with the new baptism, in invincible ignorance. So the Nicene Creed mentions one baptism for the forgiveness of sin and in 1949 we had three baptisms(water,desire and blood).
Vatican Council II would be interpreted as saying there are more than three baptisms. There is the baptism of the 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11), 'elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8) etc.

Damage control efforts must recognize  that the centre of the change in Church teaching on salvation is assuming BOD, BOB and I.I  are explicit instead of implicit,objective instead of subjective, visible instead of invisible,defacto instead of dejure( accepted only in principle). It was assumed that these cases were personally known instead of being only hypothetical.
So we must note now that all salvation alluded to in Vatican Council II or the Letter of the Holy Office 1949  is really implicit, invisible ...
There cannot be an exception to the Feeneyite version of EENS.To be an exception there would have to be cases which are explicit, objectively seen in the flesh,personally known and visible.
Since there really are no exceptions to the dogma EENS mentioned in any of the Catechisms (1885,1908,1995) we can still recite the Athanasius Creed in Church today.

I started this report by saying the Athanasius Creed could not be recited in Church since in general Catholics assume there is salvation outside the Church.BOD, BOB and I.I would refer to persons saved with a baptism which excluded the baptism of water.This also seemed the understanding of Cardinal Ratzinger when he prepared the 1995 Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I conclude this report by sayng the Athanasius Creed, which says outside the Church there is no salvation, can be recited  in Church today since there are no known cases in 2015 of persons saved in BOD, BOB or I.I. These cases are invisible for us human beings.So inspite of Cardinal Ratzingers accepting the Pius XII Error, the Catechism can be interpreted as affirming the rigorist interpretation of EENS. This is possible only  when we are aware that all references to salvation are invisible instead of visible in 2015.
-Lionel Andrades

Athanasius Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living[17] and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.(emphasis added)

When will Pope Francis allow the Traditional Latin Mass at the Franciscans of the Immaculate churches in Rome?

About three years back I would attend the Traditional Latin Mass at the church Santa Maria di Nazareth in Boccea, Rome.At this church the Latin and Novus Ordo Mass were offered by priests of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. The community is founded by Fr.Stefano Manelli F.I a good and holy priest, still kept in isolation, 'incommunicado'.
There is a new church built in the old premises of Santa Maria di Nazareth and recently the bishop was there for the dedication ceremony. The  old church is still there behind the central building, which was the former philosophy seminary, which Pope Francis abruptly closed.Fr.Settimo Maria Manelli F.I was the young Rector and Parish Priest at that time.
Today morning I went for Mass there.
The Parish Priest is Fr.Giuseppe Giorni F.I and the Assistant Parish Priest ( and Superior of the Friars) is Fr.John Francesco F.I, both good priests with the old spirituality of the Franciscan community.
I am once again living at Casalotti, Boccea and this time there is no Traditional Latin Mass. I would have to take a bus to attend the Traditional Latin Mass on Sundays, in central Rome, since there are none in Boccea.
The Latin Mass at Santa Maria di Nazareth was abruptly stopped for many parishioners at Casalotti.The priests were available but permission was not given by the Vatican.
There were reports of the Franciscans of the Immaculate founder  and many priests  not accepting the new ecclesiology.This was symbolized for many, with the Traditional Latin Mass.Crypto Lefebvrists!-they were called.
For me -the Franciscans of the Immaculate, men and women religous, were really not accepting Vatican Council II with the Pius XII Error.So what? Neither do I interpret the Council with the dead-saved are visible on earth premise.
I don't know how Fr.Giuseppe and Fr.John Francesco interpret Vatican Council II. I have not asked them and will not ask them. They pray for the founders of the community and I am sure they must want a reconciliation among all.
I have seen the Secretary General of the F.I a few times.I have not asked him any question on ecclesiology.Neither do I intend to do so in the future.
 Why should I? For me ecclesiology is clear. It's rational, traditional, non-heretical and post Conciliar.
I affirm being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I), the baptism of desire (BOD) and the baptism of blood(BOD).For me they are always implicit and hypothetical.They are theoretical cases which cannot be explicit for us humans in 2015.
Since they are objectively not seen they are not in conflict with the Feeneyite version of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).Zero cases of something cannot be exceptions to EENS, as John Martignoni put it.
For the Vatican these cases are explicit in 2015 and so are exceptions to EENS. This is politically correct with the Left.
So for me these theoretical, invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I  will be followed by the baptism of water( this is dogmatic).In Heaven there are only Catholics.They are there with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water; with 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).
It is with this exclusivist ecclesiology, based on Vatican Council II and EENS, I attend Holy Mass at Santa Maria di Nazareth and other churches in Rome. If I attend Mass in Italian or Latin, my ecclesiology would still be the same( AG 7,LG 14,CCC 1257,845, Dominus Iesus 20, Redemptoris Missio 55,Cantate Domino, Council of Florence on extra ecclesiam nulla salus ).
My ecclesiology is in agreement with the saints and popes of the past and is supported by the text of Vatican Council II. 
This may not be acceptable to some F.I priests who interpret Vatican Council II with the Pius XII Error.So Vatican Council II becomes a break with the saints and the popes.I avoid the Pius XII/Holy Office 1949 premise and inference.
I have cited magisterial documents including Vatican Council II to support my traditional view. Ecclesiology does not depend on the liturgy.My ecclesiology is exclusivist based on Vatican Council II ( AG 7,LG 14). LG 16,LG 8, NA 2, UR 3 refer to theoretical cases for me. They are possibilities  only. So they are not exceptions to AG 7 and LG 14 which say all need faith and baptism for salvation. The dead, now in Heaven (saved in invincible ignorance(LG 16) etc) cannot be exceptions on earth to EENs.So in Boccea, Rome and the rest of the world this month, every one needs to be a  formal member of the Church ( with faith and baptism) to go to Heaven and avoid Hell and there are no exceptions.
So, there can be no known exception mentioned in Vatican Council II or any Catechism( Baltimore, Pius X etc) to all needing to convert into the Catholic Church; all needing to have their names on the Parish Baptism Register.
Vatican Council II is traditional and Feeneyite for me. Ecclesiology is always traditional. There cannot be a new ecclesiology or theology based on being able to see invisible cases, who are allegedly exceptions to EENS and evidence of salvation outside the Church. For me Vatican Council II is not ambigous. Ambiguity comes with the Pius XII Error.
So ecclesiology should not be a reason for depriving us , lay people, of the Traditional Latin Mass at F.I churches in Rome.
-Lionel Andrades
Feast of the Assumption;DZY~;gPRkDHArpgO7BfMi0Yn9EJuiBehTyVU.bps.a.1618009668479875.1073741847.1545383279075848/1619121838368658/?type=1&theater