Wednesday, July 1, 2015

Feeneyism has been the offical teaching of the Catholic Church for centuries. BOD and BOB allegedly without BOW, originated in the 1940's

Comments from the Eucharistandmission blogpost Sedes and Trads are doing the dirty work of the liberals  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/sedes-and-trads-are-doing-dirty-work-of.html


IAAD:
What you don't (won't ?) understand is that BOB or BOD without BOW is not an exception to EENS
Lionel:
We have discussed this extensively on Twitter.Finally you could not say that you know someone in the present times, who is in Heaven without faith and the baptism of water.
You cannot name any one.
So still you cannot name an exception, someone whom you can physically see on earth who is in Heaven without the baptism of water.I repeat I refer to a literal case, something physical and not some theology or theory.
So I agree that there are no exceptions in the present times, none whom we can see or meet. This is also the position, I assume of Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr.Anthony Cekada.

_________________

When you speak of nonsense such as "in the flesh" exceptions we can see today, you come off sounding even more unbalanced
Lionel:
I have to keep reminding many people that the baptism of desire(BOD) and Baptism of blood(BOD)cases, would be in Heaven. So they would not be seen on earth. So they could not be exceptions to EENS.They are zero cases on earth. They are invisible for us humans. 
Since you criticise Fr. Leonard Feeney and support Cardinal Marchetti I have to remind you that BOD and BOB cases cannot be seen in the flesh to be relevant to the dogma.When you criticise Fr.Feeney you infer that the dead-saved are visible and meaningful for you, with respect to the dogma.

__________________

Who decided St. E was in Heaven? The Church who declared her a saint! 
Lionel:
Yes she is a saint and she is in Heaven. But who decided that she is in Heaven without the baptism of water?Did this unknown person have the gift to see and meet her in Heaven and confirm that she was an exception to the dogmatic teaching?

__________________

Please! Feeney wasn't around for centuries, was he?
Lionel:
Feeneyism has been the offical teaching of the Catholic Church for centuries.
BOD and BOB allegedly without BOW, originated in the 1940's.
In the past, for centuries BOB and BOD were accepted but were separated from the dogma. They were not considered explicit exceptions in the present times to EENS.

-Lionel Andrades

Sedevacantists, traditionalists unanimous : no exception to EENS exists in the present times

No one in the sedevacantist community knew of a single exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus yesterday June 30,2015 in the present times.Not a single one of them. They all agree with me here.
They all agreed yesterday while discussing this issue on Twitter that there  was not a single known exception of someone who has gone to Heaven or is going to Heaven without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water in the  present times.So there was no present day exception to the dogma EENS.
Sedevacantists, traditionalists and liberal Catholics  are in agreement here.No one could name an example yesterday, this  month, this year  or during their lifetime. 
We have a consensus here.There are no known tangible, visible in the flesh  exceptions in the present times to the Feeneyite, traditional version of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades



An exception must exist and it can only exist in the present time, since we are in the present time
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/an-exception-must-exist-and-it-can-only.html

Sedes and Trads are doing the dirty work of the liberals

Sedevacantists and Traditionalists are trying to prove that St.Emerentiana is in Heaven without the baptism of water and so the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) is disproved. Just imagine it!
If it was Cardinal Kasper trying to get rid of the dogma it would be understandable.
Who was the person who decided originally that St.Emerentiana was saved without the baptism of water? How did he know?
Who in the Catholic Church officially  declared she went to Heaven without the baptism of water. How did he know? What was his name?
 How can the sedevacantists and traditionalists  know she is in Heaven without the baptism of water and so she contradicts the centuries old Feeneyite version of the dogma EENS? 
No one in Bishop Donald  Sanborn's community knows of a single exception to EENS today (July1, 2015). They all agree with me here.
They all agree that today July 1,and yesterday June 20, while discussing this issue on Twitter, there is not a single known exception of someone who has gone to Heaven or is going to Heaven without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.
Sedevacantists, traditionalists and liberal Catholics  are in agreement here.No one can name an example today, this month, this year  or during their lifetime. 
We have a consensus here.There are no known tangible, visible in the flesh  exceptions. CMRI sedevacantist members agree here with me.
This is a set back for the liberals, for the Left. A major set back.Since Vatican Council II 'will have changed direction'.
The liberals cannot cite Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance)  as an exception to Feeneyite EENS, since there cannot humanly be a known exception.
LG 16 is a possibility but it is not an exception. 
Dogmatically it is a possibility followed by the baptism of water and it is still not an explicit exception to EENS.
So where are the citations in Vatican Council II  for cardinals Kaspar and Koch to quote?. How can they quote LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 etc  to support a new ecclesiology and new theology with reference to the Jews  and Christian communities? Since Vatican Council II says all need Catholic Faith (AG 7, LG 14)  and none of us knows of any exception.
It would be in the interest of cardinals Kaspar and Koch to cause confusion ( as they have done all these years)  and cite St.Emerentiana  or someone else, but why are the CMRI, SSPX and others doing the dirty work for the liberals and heretics?
-Lionel Andrades

The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate will have to accept this irrationalilty and contemporary heresy, to be able to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.This is how Fr.Ardito offers Holy Mass in Italian



For Fr.Sabino Ardito there are exceptions to Don Bosco's concept of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate will have to accept this irrationalilty and contemporary heresy, to be able to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.This is how Fr.Ardito offers Holy Mass in Italian.
They, the FFI, have to accept the new ecclesiology which says the baptism of desire and baptism of blood refer to known cases in the present times, without the baptism of water. So they become exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma. The dogma is a no-no at the Salesian University in Rome.
The Franciscan Friars should affirm Vatican Council II without the irrational error which comes from Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani in 1949. Then Vatican Council II is Feeneyite. Ecclesiology at the TLM will be that of the centuries.Ecclesiology and liturgy will once again be in harmony.

-Lionel Andrades



An exception must exist and it can only exist in the present time, since we are in the present time
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/an-exception-must-exist-and-it-can-only.html



http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2015/07/new-commissar-of-franciscans-of.html?showComment=1435739930402#c6942910329413045691

New Commissar of the Franciscans of the Immaculate: Father Sabino Ardito SDB


(Rome) Fr. Sabino Ardito is the new Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. He belongs to the Salesian Order of Don Bosco and is a well-known canon lawyer. He teaches at the Pontifical Salesian University in Rome and has been employed in various departments of the Roman Curia.
Father Ardito succeeds  Father Fidenzio Volpi OFM Cap.  who was deceased on 7 June at the age of 75.  Father Volpi had died as a result of a brain hemorrhage suffered on 29 April. The Capuchin had been appointed in July 2013 as the Apostolic Commissioner of the Order, which he left in a disastrous state.
Unlike Volpi, who was the sole Commissioner, Father Ardito is supported by two coadjutors, a Jesuit and a Capuchin. They, too, were chosen from among canonists, that canon law, "which was little respected by the previous provisional administration," said Corrispondenza Romana 
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2015/07/new-commissar-of-franciscans-of.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheEponymousFlower+(The+Eponymous+Flower)

An exception must exist and it can only exist in the present time, since we are in the present time





For something to be an exception it has to be there.It can only be there or not there in the present moment. Now.
For someone to be an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) he has to be there.He has to exist . He can only be there in the present time, now, today.
If someone will exist in the future he cannot be an exception today. If somone was there in the past he or she cannot be an exception today.
An exception must exist and it can only exist in the present time, since we are in the present time.
Similarly there cannot be an extraordinary way of salvation since it would be outside our time and space.We  would not know about it. The ordinary means of salvation  is 'faith and baptism' if there is an extraordinary way only God can know about it.Since humanly we cannot see or know someone saved without 'faith and baptism'. They would be in Heaven.
So if St.Emerentiana was saved  without the baptism of water(BOW), how would any one on earth know about it.Who amongst us can know of salvation 'outside' the Church? How could cardinal Marchetti and Cushing humanly know of salvation outside the Church? They could not!
Could Pope Pius XII recognise an extraordinary means of salvation outside the Church and so Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong? How could he? This would not be known to him.
So Cardinal Ottaviani made a mistake when he wanted Fr.Leonard Feeney to say that baptism of desire (BOD) and baptism of blood(BOB) were exceptions to the dogma? For BOD and BOB to be an exception to the dogma they have to be known today, now.
A BOD or BOB of the past or future cannot be an exception in the present time.
-Lionel Andrades


But you haven't seen anyone today 6/30/15, have you?



We know of St E. If it happened EVEN ONCE the absolute necessity of water baptism is disproven


One showing of BOB is all that's necessay to show them wrong !!




 ha aggiunto il tuo Tweet ai preferiti
16 h:
St.Emmerentiana was saved centuries back with BOD. How can she be cited as an exception to all needing to convert today.

 ha aggiunto il tuo Tweet ai preferiti
16 h:
If they were saved with or without the baptism of water they are irrelevant to the dogma EENS.

It's not an exception bc it's an extraordinary application of EENS. "Knowing cases" of such has nothing to do with it