Saturday, June 20, 2015

Wikipedia continues with false propaganda on extra ecclesiam nulla salus : promotes Marchetti's factual error


The Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means: "outside the Church there is no salvation".
Lionel:
 Yes. It means every one needs to be a formal member of the Catholic Church, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell. Every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Church, every one needs to have his name on the parish baptism register for salvation. All non Catholics are on the way to Hell, because of Original Sin and with mortal sins committed with no excess to the Sacrament of Confession.
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 The 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church explained this as "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body."
Lionel:
Since it accomodates the Cardinal Marchetti Selvaggiani error. 
In the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 Cardinal Marchetti postulated that there was salvation outside the Church even though he did not know of any case in particular.
He assumed that every one did not need to enter the Church since people in Heaven were visible on earth, to be explicit exceptions to the Feeneyite , traditional interpretation of the dogma.This was a factual error.Since he did not know of any case of someone saved outside the Church.He did not realise that when the said that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma, he was really inferring that 1) people in Heaven were known on earth in the present times to be exceptions or 2) that we can know of people who will be saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
The  error was placed in Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).The Catechism accomodates this error and assumes there are people saved outside the Church, that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are known exceptions.It became magisterial.
So Wikpedia also states that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body" implying that every one does not need to be a formal member of the Church- since salvation in Heaven is visible to us in the present times.
For example I accept the traditional interpretation of the dogma and I do not know any exception today (June 20) to the dogma.There cannot be exceptions since the dead-saved are not known and visible to me today.Yet this impossibility for humans was accepted by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.The same irrationality is promoted on Wikipedia.
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This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the 3rd century. The axiom is often used as shorthand for the doctrine that the Church is necessary for salvation.
Lionel:
It is a dogma and not just a maxim. It has been defined by three Church Councils. Pope Pius XII called it an 'infallible teaching'.This was the dogma which Fr.Leonard Feeney supported. He was not saying anything knew.
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 It is a dogma in the Catholic Church 
Lionel:
It suggests that Orthodox Christians and Protestants  need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.(Cantante Domino, Council of Florence 1441). So Wikpedia has it wrong here.

and theEastern Orthodox churches in reference to their own communions. It is also held by many historic Protestant Churches.
Lionel:
False.
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 However, Magisterial Protestants, Roman Catholics and the Orthodox each have a unique ecclesiastical understanding of what constitutes the Church. The theological basis for this doctrine is founded on the beliefs that (1) Jesus Christ personally established the one Church;
Lionel:
All need to formally enter this one Church Jesus. This is repeated in Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Simililarly the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257) says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water.So Vatican Council II and the Catechism are supporting the Feeneyite version of the dogma.
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 and (2) the Church serves as the means by which the graces won by Christ are communicated to believers.
Lionel:
Wikipedia cannot  affirm the 'rigorist interpretation' of the dogma. So it suggests that there are known exceptions in the present times. Wikipedia has accepted the Marchetti factual error.
-Lionel Andrades


Cardinal Napier : Vatican Council II - 2



Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, OFM. Born 8 March 1941; Baptised 19 March 1941; Priest 1970, Bishop 1981; Archbishop1992, Cardinal 2001
@annhwrd @CardinalNapier Those are my Sisters!!! The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary!! <3 span="">

@AndradesLionel  14 giu The same inference is used by the Vatican Curia. They accept the Council unlike the Slaves and SSPX

@AndradesLionel @annhwrd @CardinalNapier I believe you are mistaken. The Slaves are not SSPX by any means.

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier The Slaves and the SSPX are using the same irrational inference to interpret Vatican Council II.

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@AndradesLionel @annhwrd @CardinalNapier what's the issue? What's your problem??

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier Brother Andre Marie MICM confirms : is Vatican Council II Feeneyite ?

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Collegamento permanente dell'immagine integrata

@AndradesLionel Good Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?Jesus: "Keep the Commandments! Go sell what you have! Come follow me"!
@AndradesLionel Problem with EENS is that Jesus doesn't feature anywhere, nor does total love of God or Christlike love of neighbour!

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier Could you contact the MICM and ask them to respond. Where are the exceptions in VC 2 to EENS?
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@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier ucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/01/archbishop-thomas-gullickson-john.html

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier Kylie, I appreciate the MICM, both communities.I admire them for upholidng the dogma.

@CardinalNapier BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/brazilian-priest-says-vatican-council.html#links 

@CardinalNapier CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN ROME AGREE WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY: THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EENS IS NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus O.P

@CRCatholic @annhwrd @CardinalNapier Archbishop Thomas Gullickson, John Martigioni and Fr.P. Stefano Visintin OSB agree with me

@CardinalNapier Your Eminence, must I believe that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
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@CardinalNapier EENS says all must convert to avoid Hell. We don't know any one who will be an exception today with the 'total love of God.'

@CardinalNapier Your Eminence,CCC 1257 says all need the baptism of water for salvation. On June 18 there is no one who is an exception?!

@CardinalNapier Vatican Council II (AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Do we know anyone on June 18 who does not need it?

@CardinalNapier The dogma says all must be formal members for salvation.Do we know anyone today who does not to enter the Catholic 
Church?
@CardinalNapier In John 3:5 Jesus says that the baptism of water is necessary and Mk:16:16 he who does not believe will be condemned. EENS?
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  1. @CardinalNapier EENS says all must convert to avoid Hell. We don't know any one who will be an exception today with the 'total love of God.'
  2. @CardinalNapier Your Eminence,CCC 1257 says all need the baptism of water for salvation. On June 18 there is no one who is an exception?!
  3. @CardinalNapier Vatican Council II (AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Do we know anyone on June 18 who does not need it?
  4. @CardinalNapier The dogma says all must be formal members for salvation.Do we know anyone today who does not to enter the Catholic Church?
  5. @CardinalNapier In John 3:5 Jesus says that the baptism of water is necessary and Mk:16:16 he who does not believe will be condemned. EENS?
  6. _______________________________

-Lionel Andrades


 
Cardinal Napier : Vatican Council II- 1

Cardinal Napier : Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church, dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus







Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, OFM. Born 8 March 1941; Baptised 19 March 1941; Priest 1970, Bishop 1981; Archbishop1992, Cardinal 2001
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  1. @CardinalNapier EENS says all must convert to avoid Hell. We don't know any one who will be an exception today with the 'total love of God.'

  2. @CardinalNapier Your Eminence,CCC 1257 says all need the baptism of water for salvation. On June 18 there is no one who is an exception?!

  3. @CardinalNapier Vatican Council II (AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Do we know anyone on June 18 who does not need it?

  4. @CardinalNapier The dogma says all must be formal members for salvation.Do we know anyone today who does not to enter the Catholic Church?

  5. @CardinalNapier In John 3:5 Jesus says that the baptism of water is necessary and Mk:16:16 he who does not believe will be condemned. EENS?

  6. -Lionel Andrades
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Collegamento permanente dell'immagine integrata

Cardinal Napier : Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/06/cardinal-napier-vatican-council-ii.html
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CCC 1257: Muslims and other non Catholics
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/ccc-1257-muslims-and-other-non-catholics.html

Until today there is no apology issued from the Vatican or the Jesuits


I do not use an irrational inference, a false premise, so there is no discontinuity between Vatican II and Tradition

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/i-do-not-use-irrational-inference-false.html

There can be a Vatican Council II according to a leftist or 'right wing' ideology : it depends upon the premise

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/there-can-be-vatican-council-ii.html#links

 Rome made a mistake in 1949 and Fr.John Hardon did not notice it 

The Catechumen you refer to is a hypothetical case for you and me. So it is not an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : Fr.John Hardon too did not notice this.http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/the-catechuman-you-refer-to-is.html

For Cardinal Raymond Burke these hypothetical cases are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salushttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/for-cardinal-raymond-burke-these.html


VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS 
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