Saturday, May 2, 2015

Apparition Theology which Church Militant and Fr.Barron accept, contradict the exclusivist ecclesiology of Augustine and Aquinas.

Michael Voris:
If you have seen any of the previous Vortex episodes this week, we can come to the conclusion of what we might term "Judas week" here at Church Militant. If you haven't seen the previous ones, we strongly suggest you view them because this episode assumes you know the arguments from Scripture, the Fathers and doctors, popes, saints, and private revelation about Judas' damnation laid out all this week.
When we speak of the Church of Nice, we mean the institutional approach laid out and backed by weak, feminized male leaders who do not want to preach the hard truths of the Faith. Why they don't want to is based on many motives already covered numerous times in previous episodes.
The Church of Nice does not want to say that the  Magisterium made a mistake in CCC 1257, 846. Neither does Michael Voris. They do not want to say that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made an objective mistake.Neither does Michael Voris. They do not want to say Vatican Council II does not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma on salvation. They do not want to say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct on doctrine and that Cardinal Richard Cushing made an objective mistake, since there are no known exceptions to the dogma. 
At the heart of the Church of Nice is an accommodationist attitude that refuses to deal in the supernatural reality preached by Our Blessed Lord that humans go to Hell. He Himself tells us this directly in Matthew's Gospel. These people — clergy and laity — have for decades downplayed Hell (the consequence of unrepented mortal sin), and this approach has spun off all kinds of ills in the Church.
When Hell is ignored then so is sin, because simply put, if there’s no serious chance of going to Hell, then sin doesn't really have any serious consequence beyond this life. If there's no sin, there's no real need for the sacrament of confession — because, put simply, what exactly would you be confessing? And additionally, why would you be confessing it?
If you reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which indicates most people are on the way to Hell since at the time of death, they were not formal  members of the  Catholic Church, then you  have changed the Church's teachings on Hell.
Michael Voris  will not affirm the dogma since he assumes that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicit exceptions to all needing to be card carrying members of the Church.So for Church Militant .com there are exceptions based on the ability to see people in Heaven.Apparitions.Apparition theology is  promoted based on CCC 846 and 1257.
How can Church Militant support the dogma which says all need to convert into the Church and also support there being defacto exceptions to this teaching. This is the irrationality and heresy of the Church of Nice.Why cannot the independent Catholic media discuss this issue.
Erase Hell and you erase the need for the Church, which is to defeat the gates of Hell in the life of each person.
When you do not affirm the dogma, with allegedly known exceptions,then you erase the need of the Church for salvation.
Judas is the patron saint of the Church of Nice. And the one thing to bear in mind in all of this is that this evil that has been adopted by so many in the Church these days — including vast swaths of the clergy, including bishops — come to us by way of the Protestant heresy, courtesy of Protestant theologian Karl Barth.
Barth is practically worshiped in the hoity-toity crowd of Catholic eggheads who have high IQs but are woefully deficient in wisdom. One of them was Catholic theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, who came up with the massively un-Catholic idea that "we have a reasonable hope that all men are saved" — including Judas.
They 'have a reasonable hope 'since they accepted Marchetti's Letter which said there is salvation outside the Church. Since there is known salvation outside the Church liberal theologians  could have a reasonable hope.This created the opening for Karl Rahner's 'anonymous Christian.'
His error has been spread by popular priests like Robert Barron, who runs the seminary for the archdiocese of Chicago, instilling this protestant heresy-inspired notion into the minds of young men in his charge. Those young men would be better served by reading the works and thoughts of St. Thomas and St. Augustine, whom Fr. Robert smilingly dismisses on this subject, saying they are too severe.
St.Thomas and St.Augustine are redundant since their understanding of salvation has been set aside with  the so called 'exceptions'. Apparition Theology which Church Militant and Fr.Barron accept, contradict the exclusivist ecclesiology of Augustine and Aquinas.
Liberal theologians are also interpreting Aquinas's  man in the forest who has not heard of the Gospel as being a case visible in the present times.So it becomes an exceptions. This is irrational. Yet with this irrationality used by Michael Voris and Simon Rafe,Aquinas and Augustine, are put aside at the seminary in Chicago.Apparition Theology rejects the traditional centuries old interpretation of the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation.The Catechism of the Catholic Church is so liberal it does not mention the dogma and calls it an aphorism(CCC 846).
Too severe? Those doctors of the Church are echoing the words of Our Blessed Lord Himself. Is God too severe on this point for the Church of Nice?
The dogma on salvation  like Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) indicate most people are on the way to Hell. This is severe for the Church of Nice.
The answer is, sadly, yes. The Church of Nice thinks that all this "Hell" stuff is a little over the top. That's why they can't have a serious take-no-prisoners discussion about it. It's why it's never in their homilies. It's why they tell starving souls in confession that this isn't a sin and that isn't a sin. It's why they celebrate Mass with all the decorum of a boring circus. It's why they drone on and on about mercy, when what they are really offering is a false compassion, a false understanding of mercy.
They have erected their own belief system and taken the label Catholic because they have kept the buildings and institutions ,and to all outward appearances it's Catholic.  
But at its heart, it isn't Catholic. The importance of the sacraments are shunted off, the theology is accommodated to feelings and emotions, the liturgy is minimalized and made a near-mockery of. 
Michael Voris in a previous video in this Judas series is using Apparition Theology.He says every one does not need to be a card carrying member of the Church for salvation.
He cites St.Paul who was converted without the baptism of water and says God is not limited to the Sacraments.
The dogma tells us that God has limited salvation to the Sacraments.
If there was a Saul on the road to Damascus saved today we would not know. So the case would not be an exception. Something that happened in the past cannot be an exception to the dogma today. We cannot reject Augustine and Aquinas' interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus because it is a possibility that someone could be saved outside the Church even when we personally do not know any such case.
It was because of this error that Fr.Jonathan Morris said not every one needs to enter the Church. Now Michael Voris is indirectly saying the same thing.There are exceptions, God is not limited to the Sacraments in the present times.This is a new doctrine based on an irrational premise and inference.
This is why there is such tremendous blowback from notable Church leaders — in private and in public — about the Mass being offered in Latin, for example. They want nothing to upset the carefully planted idea in people's minds, instilled by errant theologians, that the Mass is really about us the people gathering around a table for some food.
Errant theologians do not want to say that Vatican Council II tells us all  need to be card  carrying members of the Church. Where does it say it ? Here.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
 This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. -Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
Michael Voris could affirm the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church by citing these three passages.
Greed and disobedience are what led to Judas Iscariot’s damnation, and unless it's repented from, it's what will lead to the damnation of the Church of Nice as well. Too much of Catholic identity is at stake to keep silent on this matter of Hell, sin and Judas any longer.
Church is still silent on how Catholic school children in Detroit are taught an irrationality in Religion  Class. I have written a series of reports on this issue and Michael Voris has not responded...Greed, disobedience...-Lionel Andrades

We humans cannot know of an extra ordinary means of salvation. So there cannot be any defacto exception to the ordinary means of salvation.

Steve Speray:
Yes, baptism of desire is true and must be believed by Catholics since it’s taught by the Church.

Yes it can believed but not as an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So yes a person can be saved with the baptism of desire and we do not know any case in the present times.

 I’ve written extensively on the subject on this blog and in my book which you’ll find at my bookstore. 
For you these cases are known in April-May 2015 and so they are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
You also support the factual error in the Marchetti Letter.
Also you are unaware of the irrational theology, based on apparitions in CCC 1257,846 etc.
Since you also unknowingly use, Apparition Theology.

No, Jesus was not lying anymore than when He said that the mustard seed becomes the biggest of all shrubs (Mk 4:32) or when He said that “all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matt. 26:52). Baptism of Desire is the doctrine that concerns extraordinary circumstances.

Fine but do not consider it an extra ordinary way in the present times.This would be irrational and heretical. There is only one way. It is Jesus in the Catholic Church. The way to salvation is 'faith and baptism'. The baptism of desire cannot be chosen or given or administered.If it happens it would be grace and it would be known only to God.
Zero cases of something cannot be considered an exception to all needing to formally enter the Church to avoid Hell.
Without this error Vatican Council II does not contradict Tradition doctrinally.

 Jesus was speaking under ordinary circumstance in John 3:5 as the Church taught in the Roman Catechism. Correct nuances are critical when understanding doctrine, Scripture, law, etc.
John 3.5 and Mark 16:16 refer to the ordinary means of salvation.We humans cannot know of an extra ordinary means of salvation. So there cannot be any defacto exception to the ordinary means of salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

Vox Cantoris and Tantumblogo are unaware of Apparition Theology

Vox Cantoris did not know that Vatican Council II affirms the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and that Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium 16 does not contradict it.David unneccesarily went on the defensive in a dialogue on Facebook with the Vatican News Office.1
He asked if all religions are equal ? This was a good point to begin the dialogue.

I would have followed up by saying that as a Catholic I believe that the Catholic Church teaches in Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell with no exception unless before they die they convert formally ( with faith and baptism ) into the Catholic Church. This would also include the Islamists in Benin.They are all going to Hell (AG 7,LG 14) .

When English responded citing Nostra Aetate, I would have agreed with him saying there are good things in other religions but the religions are false paths to salvation (LG 14,AG 7). We do not know any one in the present times saved  with 'a ray of that Truth'(NA 2).Can't meet anyone this month! So NA 2 does not refer to an objective exception.We humans cannot know of any exception to all needing to convert for salvation in Benin.The pope could not meet someone there saved in invincible ignorance or with that 'ray of the Truth'. So dialogue should be conducted knowing that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation ( Redemptoris Missio 55).

Similarly Lumen Gentium 16 'those who without any fault do not know anything about Christ or his Church...' does not refer to an objective case in the present times. LG 16 is superflous with respect to the extra ecclesiam nulla salus, as it was interpreted over the centuries.

LG 16 does not contradict AG 7 and LG 14. All need to convert into the Church with 'faith and baptism' to avoid the fires of Hell. ( Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441).

Vox Cantoris  asks,' What of “no salvation outside of the Church?”. He does not affirm the Feeneyite version of the dogma according to Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14). Since he probably thinks the Letter of the Holy Office 1949  and the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846,1257 are correct. He is not aware that CCC 846,1257 and the Marchetti Letter are heretical and irrational. They are  promting Apparition Theology.This is modernism which Vox Cantoris has accepted and so he gives the Vatican News an easy pass.

Similarly Tantumblogo 2 on the Dallas Blog  comments on the Vox Cantoris blogpost but does not realize that there is heresy in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.Cardinal Ratzinger accepted the Marchetti factual error. In the Catechism there are Cushingite passages which assume that being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire refer to defacto cases, explicit cases known in the present times.
The Magisterium at the Vatican promotes an irrational premise and inference.Then upon this irrationality (apparitions) they base their new theology. The new theology and ecclesiology is accepted by Vox Cantoris and Tantumblogo.So this creates a hermeneutic of discontinuity with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general.They are both using the liberal interpretation of Vatican Council II and the Catechism (1992).
They could talk of salvation like the saints did and quote Vatican Council II and the orthodox passages in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
When someone cites exceptions (CCC 1257,LG 16 etc) show him that he assumes the dead in Heaven are living on earth to be exceptions. This is at the centre of the Vatican's Apparition Theology.3
Tell him that you do not know any one in May 2015 saved outside the Church i.e without faith and baptism (LG 16.AG 7).So in Vatican Council II there are no contradictions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma.This should be part of dialogue.-Lionel Andrades




Apparition theology in Detroit