Wednesday, April 15, 2015

SSPX must continue to reject Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents interpreted with the false premise and conclusion : ChurchMilitant TV comment incomplete

ChurchMilitant.TV The pope is the highest authority on this matter. Regardless of what various cardinals or bishops have said, the pope has the last word.1
Lionel:
The popes, CDF and Ecclesia Dei are interpreting Vatican Council II with an irrational premise and inference. So why should the SSPX accept Vatican Council II with this error which is not traditional or Catholic.
The popes, CDF, Ecclesia Dei and cardinals are interpreting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite version/rigorist interpretation) with the Marchetti-Cushing premise and inference.This is irrational and heretical and was not part of the Deposit of the Faith before 1949.
For the contemporary Magisterium at the Vatican, the Nicene Creed's 'I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins', has really changed to, 'I believe in two or more baptisms for the forgiveness of sins and they exclude the baptism of water. They are the baptism of desire, baptism of blood, seeds of the Word (AG 11), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3), a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men' (NA 2)etc.'
Why must the SSPX accept all this ?
Is not the contemporary magisterium in schism?
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Pope Benedict made clear in his 2009 motu proprio Ecclesiam Unitatem:1. The SSPX has no canonical status
Lionel:
They have no canonical status since they will not accept Vatican Council II as Pope Benedict XVI does, with the irrational premise,inference and conclusion.This is  heretical.
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2. The SSPX has no jurisdiction
Lionel:
Jurisdiction will only be given to those who use the irrational premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.
This was a problem faced in the past by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, when he sought incardination.He rejected Vatican Council II ( with the premise).
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3. The SSPX exercises "no legitimate ministry in the Church"
Lionel:
Their Mass is valid. It is the Sacrifice of Jesus, the unbloody Sacrifice, the Sacrifice of Calvary.
They are also not using the new ecclesiology with the Holy Mass in Latin as is being done by the FSSP priests.The new ecclesiology is based on an irrational premise, it creates a foreign doctrine in the Church.
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4. All SSPX clergy remain suspended a divinis, which means their clergy are forbidden from offering the sacraments under pain of mortal sin.
Lionel:
It is a mortal sin to change the Nicene Creed, reject a dogma defined by three Church Councils and to interpret Vatican Council II with an irrational premise, inference and conclusion, even after being informed.
The onus lies with the CDF.
Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Prefect of the CDF  should state that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not known to us in personal cases in April 2015. So they cannot be exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
He should announce that the International Theological Commission, Vatican made this objective error in two theological papers, overseen by the Secretary of the CDF, Cardinal Luz Ladaria S.J.
The CDF must announce that the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church is still exclusivist.
In the mean time the SSPX must continue to reject Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents interpreted with the false premise and conclusion.
They can however choose to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise, after the contemporary Magisterium has given the lead.
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They act as if they have status and jurisdiction, and daily defy the Holy See by offering the sacraments, thus committing mortal sin.
Lionel:
Pope Benedict XVI said the issue is doctrine. Then it is the responsibility of the pope to clarify that Vatican Council II can be interpreted without the Marchetti-Cushing error and that his magisterium made an objective mistake in many Church documents.
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They set a terrible example of disobedience, and draw people away into their independent community, while denigrating a legitimate and valid rite of the Church. The SSPX may not be in formal schism, but there is no doubt they are in material schism.
Lionel:
Church Militant TV could begin to resolve this issue by identifying the irrational premise, inference and conclusion.
This error is the basis of the new ecclesiology which is being taught at Catholic Schools in Detroit, where CMTV is situated.This error is also being taught by Fr.Joseph D.Fessio,Editor at Ignatius Press, David Obeid, Principal of St. Mary Mackillop Colleges, Australia and Luke Macik, Headmaster of the Lyceum Academy,USA .They appeared on the last Mic'd Up program ' The School Daze'.They have not denied this error in the comments section. 2 David Obeid is a recognised apologist whose work I appreciate.  -Lionel Andrades

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ChurchMilitant.TV The pope is the highest authority on this matter. Regardless of what various cardinals or bishops have said, the pope has the last word. Pope Benedict made clear in his 2009 motu proprio Ecclesiam Unitatem:

1. The SSPX has no canonical status

2. The SSPX has no jurisdiction
3. The SSPX exercises "no legitimate ministry in the Church"
4. All SSPX clergy remain suspended a divinis, which means their clergy are forbidden from offering the sacraments under pain of mortal sin.

They act as if they have status and jurisdiction, and daily defy the Holy See by offering the sacraments, thus committing mortal sin. They set a terrible example of disobedience, and draw people away into their independent community, while denigrating a legitimate and valid rite of the Church. The SSPX may not be in formal schism, but there is no doubt they are in material schism.

Argentine CatholiSchism (video)
 
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Questions and Answers
what premise ?
The irrational premise is "The dead are visible to us on earth".

What inference/ conclusion ?
The inference is since the dead are visible to us on earth, those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance being explicit ( visible in the flesh) become exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So it is concluded that Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) contradict the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So it is concluded that Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition, it has the hermeneutic of rupture.
What theology ?
The post -1949 theology says every one needs to enter the Catholic Church except for those in invincible ignorance or with the baptism of desire.Since it assumes that defacto( in fact in the present times,explicitly) there are known exceptions to the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.So it is a theology which assumes there is salvation outside the Church even though we cannot know of any one saved without 'faith and baptism'.
What Tradition?
Pre- 1949 Catholic Tradition, on salvation ( soteriology) says there is exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. The three dogmas on extra ecclesiam nulla salus ,defined by three Church Councils, do not mention any exception. The text also does not mention the baptism of desire or being saved in invincible ignorance.I am referring to Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441 etc.
Also Mystici Corporis and the Council of Trent mention implicit desire etc but do not state that these cases are known to us, to be exceptions to the dogma.Neither do they state that there are exceptions to the dogma.
Yet with the false premise and inference is how the Council of Trent, the Catechism of Pope Pius X etc are interpreted.
Do you accept the baptism of desire?
Yes. I believe a Catechuman who has an implicit desire for the baptism of water and dies before he receives it can be saved. Since God will provide the means for him to receive the baptism of water. It has been the experience of saints, including St. Francis Xavier that some people returned from the dead only to be baptised by them with the baptism of water.
Irrational premise, Irrational inference, Non traditional conclusion
The secular media uses an irrational premise which is "We can see the dead who are now in Heaven, we can physically see them in Heaven and on earth".
They then make an
irrational inference which is " Since we can see people in Heaven saved without the baptism of water and formal entry into the Church, there is known salvation outside the Church and these cases are an explicit exception to the traditional interpretation of EENS."
Their
conclusion is : Vatican Council II is a break with EENS.

I accept the Magisterium
'For me the magisterial teaching of the Church documents (and not the contemporary magisterium i.e the persons in power) support the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( AG 7,LG 14, CCC 1257,845,846, Redemptoris Missio 55, Dominus Iesus 20 etc).

I accept the Magisterium ( Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14), CCC 1257, 845,846, Redemptoris Missio 55, Dominus Iesus 20, Council of Trent,Syllabus of Errors, Catechism of Pope Pius X, Cantate Dominio Council of Florence 1441 etc).
Magisterium, Scripture and Tradition, before and after Vatican Council II support Fr.Leonard Feeney and the four Catholic professors of theology, who were expelled by Boston College. http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/03/dont-blame-vatican-ii.html#comment-1943178630

Exclusivist ecclesiology?
The new theology is based on being able to see the dead. Remove the premise, which is, "I can see the dead on earth".We then have the old ecclesiology, the exclusivist ecclesiology. The ecclesiology of Vatican Council II is exclusivist. Since it affirms the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in Ad Gentes 7, which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.LG 16,LG 8,UR 3,NA 2 etc are not known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 or the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. We are left with the old ecclesiology.

Who agrees with you?
Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson says Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/archbishop-thomas-egullickson-says.html

DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST. ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
Implicit intention, invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) in Vatican Council II do not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus –John Martigioni http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/implicit-intention-invincible-ignorance.html#links
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Egypt: Christian arrested for offending Muslims

Egypt: Christian arrested for offending Muslims, witch-hunt for 5 others

Relatives of Egyptian Coptic men killed in Libya mourn at their house in al-Our village, in Minya governorate, south of CairoLast week, security agents arrested Gad Yusif Yunan, a 22-year-old Coptic Christian man who works as an English teacher in Nasriya village, Upper Egypt, on the charge of “contempt of religions.” He is accused of posting a 30-second video on his personal Facebook page that deals with Muslim prayers and is apparently insulting.
Once local Muslims discovered it, they informed security agents who who proceeded to arrest him in the late night. Security is also looking for five others believed to have been involved in the film.
The young Copt was reportedly held for four days pending investigations in his exact role in this 30-second-film.
Although Egypt’s “contempt of religions” law theoretically applies to all religions—theoretically means if a Muslim insults Christians or Christianity in Egypt, he too should be arrested—it is used almost exclusively to target Egypt’s Christian minorities.
Update: On Friday, April 10 — as usual, after Islam’s weekly communal prayers – Muslims in Nasriya village rose up in violence against Christian homes, hurling stones through their windows and even setting fire to them. This was done in “retaliation” to the offense Muslims received from the Coptic teacher who was arrested two days earlier.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/04/coptic-christian-arrested-for-offending-muslims-witch-hunt-for-5-others