Sunday, March 8, 2015

What makes a traditionalist or liberal ? It's the premise and EENS

Presently it is extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) which decides who is a traditionalist or liberal in the Catechism of the Catholic Church but this will change.Since we now know that what makes the  difference.It  is the use or rejection of a false premise, in the interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents.

For instance the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) rejects Vatican Council II since it is a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors etc.They mean LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc are a rupture with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So they affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the Church Councils and reject Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc). They are called traditionalists by the media.

Pope Francis, Pope Benedict XVI and the liberals accept Vatican Council II since it is a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors  etc. They also mean LG 16, UR 3, LG 8, NA 2 etc are a rupture with the strict interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Church.
So they do not affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the Church Councils, popes and saints and accept Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) . They are called liberals by the media.
Now we have a new scenario. All this has changed.

The liberals and traditionalists assume that LG 16  etc refer to persons  alive and known in the present times e.g 2015.
For both of them these cases of the deceased who are now in Heaven are personally known on earth.They would have to be known to be exceptions to the dogma. This is their irrational premise.'Zero cases of something cannot be exceptions' says the apologist John Martigioni with reference to this issue.
That the dead are visible on earth is part of the reasoning of both groups. The result is fantasy theology accepted by one group and rejected by the other.
This is a standard premise they use in the interpretation of LG 16 etc.
So those saved in invincible ignorance and allegedly without  the baptism of water are  an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
One group (liberals) excepts  the conclusion and the other ( traditionalists) reject it.
 The conclusion is non traditional, irrational and heretical.However both groups in the Catholic Church come to the same conclusion.It's an innocent mistake.Since in general they are unaware of it.
1. There have been articles and interviews  critical of Vatican Council II by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Fr. Francois Laisney, Fr. Anthony Cekada, Fr.Joseph Pfeiffer and others when they use the irrational premise i.e the dead now saved are visible on earth.
2. There have been articles and interviews on Vatican Council II by Cardinal Martini S.J, Cardinal Koch, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Di Noia, Mons. Guido Pozzo, the Jesuits Fr. Francis Sullivan S.J and others when they use the same irrational premise.
Aside from these two clear groups there are Catholics who are conservative  but on this issue ( salvation-Vatican Council II-false premise) they are liberals.They include Cardinal Raymond Burke, Fr.John Zuhlsdorf, Robert Sungenis and the late Fr.John Hardon, Mons. Joseph Clifford Fenton etc.

Now we have the possibility of  change since we have identified what makes a Catholic orthodox or heterodox on this issue.

I interpret Vatican Council II without the irrational premise and so my conclusion is traditional.Vatican Council II is Feeneyite, it affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma.
Try it and see!
The distinction between the two groups with reference to Vatican Council II has changed.What makes the Council a break with the past is the premise and not the Council.
To be a true Catholic is to be a Feeneyite says Brother Andre Marie  MICM. For me Feeneyism is the official magisterial teaching of the Church, according to Vatican Council II.Even the first part of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston is Feeneyite.
For me, Vatican Council II says most people are going to Hell 1 since at the time of death they do not have 'faith and baptism'(AG 7). Ad Gentes 7 is in line with the strict interpretation  of the dogma - and there are no exceptions to AG 7 mentioned in Vatican Council .-Lionel Andrades
A young Korean artist taken to Hell. Drew pictures of it.
The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin...The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there...-St.Teresa of Avila's description of Hell.

These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.
Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
I would have died

There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me...-St.Faustina Kowalska's description of Hell.

"Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh."

Here Josefa repeated the multiple tortures from which no single member of the body is excluded:

"I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns... not a finger-nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, nor change posture, for the body seems flattened out and yet doubled in two.- Sr.Joseph Menendez's description of Hell.
Alse see Dante's similar experience in Hell (Divine Comedy-Inferno)

Cardinal Raymond Burke interprets Church documents with an irrational premise and conclusion and offers the Traditional Latin Mass


Archbishop Thomas Gullickson, John Martigioni and Fr.Rev. Fr.P. Stefano Visintin OSB, Dean of the Faculty of Theology at the Pontifical University St.Anselm agree with me : there are no visible exceptions