Sunday, January 4, 2015

It is a fact of life that we cannot see the dead on earth. It is a fact of life that we cannot see or know any exceptions to the dogma.



http://imamanamateurbrainsurgeon.blogspot.com/2014/12/mr-andrades-and-eens-1.html

Mighty Joe Young,
Thank you for your interest and comments.This is a very important subject.It is necessary that the Catholic Church issue a clarification on this subject.

I respect Monsignor Fenton, Fr.William Most and others, who as good Catholics and with good intentions, accepted the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

However the principal error that the Letter made was factual and not theological. 
The Letter used a false premise, a false proposition. Then it built a new theology upon this objective error.
The Letter assumed that exceptions to the dogma were known and visible to us in real life.In other words they assumed that the dead who are now in Heaven, saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance, were exceptions to all needing the baptism of water on earth. So for the Letter these invisible cases became explicit exceptions to the traditional teaching of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney and the St.Benedict Center.
It is a fact of life that we cannot see the dead on earth. It is a fact of life that we cannot see or know any exceptions to the dogma.
This was not noticed by Mons. Fenton or Fr.William Most, otherwise, good apologists.
Even when the confusion was carried over into Vatican Council II,(LG 16 etc) the error from the Letter of the Holy Office, was not detected and corrected.
-Lionel Andrades

There are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The baptism of desire is not a defacto exception says a Brazilian priest today



A Brazilian priest who offered the Traditional Latin Mass today morning at a  church in Rome during the homily said that there is no salvation outside Jesus and there is no salvation outside the Church and this is the Mystery of the Incarnation.
After Holy Mass he confirmed that physically we cannot see any one saved with the baptism of desire etc. The baptism of desire is a possibility but it is not a defacto, objective exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
He said that there are three baptisms, the baptism of desire, blood and water. Those who receive the baptism of desire and blood will also receive the baptism of water.
So theologically the baptism of water is always necessary for salvation and there are physically no visible exceptions.
In Rome in 2015, he said,in response to a question, every one needs to be a formal member of the Church, with 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).There are no exceptions. All non Catholics defacto need to convert into the Church in 2015 in Rome.There can be no known exceptions.
The young priest who is studying in Rome  was repeating the same message expressed by Fr.Marco Hausmann FSSP, (Dec.21,2015).He also said there are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are not defacto exceptions,
This is a small observation by these two priests.It would have a staggering influence on  our understanding of Vatican Council II.They are both saying that in Vatican Council II there cannot be any exceptions to the centuries old interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, defined by three Church Councils. LG 16,LG 8, UR 3,NA 2 etc refer to possibilities ( which would be followed by the baptism of water) and they are not explicit exceptions to the dogma.Since these cases would be known only to God and would be invisible for us.
With Vatican Council II not contradicting extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Council is traditional on other religions and ecumenism.With the Council supporting  'the rigorist interpretation' of extra ecclesiam nulla salus we have the traditional means for affirming the Social Reign of Christ the King over all political institutions.The basis for religious liberty would be the dogma which is supported by Vatican Council II.A Vatican Council II  which does not mention any exceptions.-Lionel Andrades

DECEMBER 21, 2014