Saturday, June 27, 2015

For Fr.Cekada Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to EENS when he does not know any LG 16 case in 2015 in the USA.Yet it is an exception to EENS for him





I've never met someone who says "right" only to so invariably get it WRONG! You Feeneyites are SO predictable it would actually be funny if it wasn't so tragic; endangering your salvation and those of other who imbibe your disproven and heretical ideas.

Here is a list of your errors above:

Error #1. Nor have the popes ever expressly taught either BOD or BOB. Nor have they ever even used those terms in their teaching
 Lionel: They have never taught BOD and BOB as being explicit for us or as being exceptions to the dogma. There was no link. You have made the link as have the popes after Pius XII.Answer: Pope Benedict XV expressly teaches BOD and BOB in promulgating the Code of Canon Law (1917). The Church is infallible. The proposition that the Church could err in Her universal disciplinary Laws was condemned by Pope Pius VI (Auctorum Fidei), Pope Gregory XVI (Mirari Vos and Quo Graviora), Pope St. Pius X (Pascendi Domenici Gregis), and Pope Pius XII (Mystici Corporis).
 Lionel: I repeat they have not said that these cases are objective for us on earth or that they are explicit exceptions to EENS.
Major Premise: The Church is Infallible and cannot err in Her universal disciplinary laws.
Minor Premise: The 1917 Code of Canon Law is a universal disciplinary law.
Conclusion: The Church cannot teach error in the 1917 Code of Canon Law.

In Canon 737 and Canon 1239.2, the Church teaches BOD and BOB. Therefore, they cannot be wrong as they are guarded by the Infallibility possessed by Pope Benedict XV. If he taught error George, you would have to believe that there has been a state of sedevacante at least since 1914, since he would have lost his papal office! Do you believe that?

 Lionel: I repeat they have not said that these cases are objective for us on earth or that they are explicit exceptions to EENS.
Error #2: For if the defined dogma of the Church is that there’s no salvation outside the Church how can we accept the teaching that there is some salvation outside the Church? It’s completely illogical.
Lionel: Agreed! And if one of those propositions must be rejected, surely it should be the one that contradicts the infallible teachings of the popes, no matter who is promoting it.
 Lionel: Agreed!

Answer: There is no salvation outside the Church. Apparently, you have problems in reading comprehension. Read what I wrote above:
III) The Church Recognizes Two Extraordinary Means Of Attaining Church Membership and Salvation: Baptism of Desire (BOD) and Baptism of Blood (BOB)
Lionel: Yes if they are followed with the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.But this may not be what you are referring to.

In the case where someone has (a) explicit Catholic Faith and Desire for the sacrament but no opportunity for Baptism, or (b) implicit Catholic Faith where explicit Faith is impossible, or (c) if someone sheds his Blood for Christ's One True Church yet has been prevented from getting baptized, God can perform a miracle of Grace whereby He infuses Faith and Sanctifying Grace into the soul immediately prior to death. The person dies Catholic and in God's friendship, thereby being saved apart from the sacrament of Baptism in extraordinary conditions. Lionel: Fine and we would not know who he is. So do not infer that this case is related to EENS. All need 'faith and baptism'(AG7 ) for salvation today and I personally do not know this case you are referring to and neither would you know him or her personally.So it is irrelevant to the dogma, the Feeneyite version.
Ergo, those who receive BOD or BOB are members of the Church just prior to the moment of death and die within the Church.
Lionel: O.K . And they are not exceptions to Fr.Leonard Feeney's interpretation of the dogma.They have nothing to do with the Church Fathers interpretation of the dogma.
Secondly, do you believe that Pope Benedict XV and all those pre-Vatican II theologians were so stupid they wouldn't (didn't) see any contradiction when the declare EENS and BOD/BOB? It's illogical only because you don't understand it. The contradiction is one concocted in your heretical mind, not objective reality.
Lionel: The lliberal theologians who proposed BOD and BOB as being exceptions to the dogma in the 1949's etc were heretical.


  • All your ramblings about contradictions and intelligibility are just that---mindless ramblings. 

    Error #4: Moreover, that the non-contradiction position is, on the other hand, completely unintelligible to the intellect becomes obvious when you ask someone who holds it how the apparent contradiction can be resolved, they immediately start talking about Saint Thomas, the consensus of theologians, the catechisms, etc., instead of defending their position according to logic or according to its inherent reasonableness, which, of course, it doesn’t possess.

    Answer: It is you who are devoid of logic and reasonableness, as I've just explained those who receive BOB and BOD are members of the Church!
  • Lionel: Of course you are not referring to the line of reasoning used by one Lionel Andrades. You are referring to George.I am waiting for you to discuss my approach. I though would agree with George if he says BOD and BOB are not exceptions to the dogma, even though his approach may be different.

    Error# 5:But to hold inexorably to the infallible teachings of the holy popes and to utterly reject any opinion that contradicts them, no matter from what source, is not to hold to one’s private judgment, but rather to reject private judgment altogether, whether their own or anyone else’s, and to hold firmly to the pillar and ground of all truth.
    Lionel: There is a problem.The popes after 1949 contradict the popes before 1949.
    Answer: Pope Benedict's promulgation of the Code of Canon Law (1917) was infallible and teaches BOD and BOB.
    Lionel: We do not have to reject BOD and BOB. Since being implicit and invisible for us they are compatible with the rigorous interpretation of EENS.Therefore, you are rejecting the Church's Indefectibility; She cannot promulgate erroneous disciplinary laws to the whole Church as explained above. It is "universal" as it applies to all Latin right Catholics. It is even "Universal" in the non-technical sense, as the Eastern Rites all possess canons of discipline that state the doctrines of BOD and BOB as in the Latin Rite. 
    Lionel: I accept BOD and BOB but for me these cases are explicit and known only to God. They are possibilities for me. They are not defacto, known cases in June 2015.For you it may not be the same.It is different for Fr.Cekada.

    In refusing to submit to all but infallible statements of the popes you are condemned by the pope!

    Pope Pius IX--Syllabus of Errors
    CONDEMNED PROPOSITION # 22
    "The obligation by which Catholic teachers and authors are strictly bound is confined to those things only which are proposed to universal belief as dogmas of faith by the infallible judgment of the Church."

    As Fr Cekada once said to a Feeneyite: By denying BOD and BOB, you have, ironically, placed yourself "Extra Ecclesiam" where we all know there is "Nulla Salus." Please repent and come back to the Church.
    --Introibo
    Lionel: Fr.Anthony Cekada is a sedevacantist like you.For him BOD was an exception to EENS. So he wrote that the MICM ( Fr.Leonard Feeney's communities in the USA) were in mortal sin, for not accepting BOD as an exception to EENS. For him Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to EENS.He does not know any LG 16 case in 2015 in the USA.Yet it is an exception to EENS for him.So he rejects Vatican Council II and has gone into sedevacantism.-Lionel Andrades

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