Monday, June 15, 2015

Christine Niles interviews Brother Andre Marie MICM : is Vatican Council II Feeneyite ?

Forward BoldlyOn Forward Boldly,the blog talk show Christine Niles interviews Brother Andre Marie MICM and neither of the two could say that Vatican Council II  is Feeneyite and that it affirms the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
Instead Christine Niles says that she affirms EENS but she is not  necessarily a Feeneyite !!?
It's like Michael Voris also saying that he also affirms outside the Church there is no salvation but every one does not need to be a card carrying member of the Church.
Why?
Who do they know in Detroit who is in Heaven  this month without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water?
Brother Andre Marie was vague on Vatican Council II and is still using Marchetti's inference to interpret the Council.He could not say that Vatican Council II is not vague for him and that it affirms the Feeneyite version of the dogma.
It was interesting listening to them. We need more interviews of Brother Andre Marie, the Prior of the St. Benedict Center, Richmond, New Hampshire. We need more discussion on this subject which is related to the Traditional Latin Mass, the new ecclesiology and the canonical status of the SSPX among other things.
I am re-listening to the show as I write this. Last night I was in a hurry.
I am a Feeneyite like St.Francis Xavier, St. Thomas Aquinas, St., Augustine....
I am also faithful to the magisterium according to Vatican Council II  and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Like Fr.Leonard Feeney I affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma, the traditional version  and ALSO being  saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Since being saved in invincible ignorance etc  are always unknown and invisible for us humans in the present times, they cannot be exceptions to the traditional centuries old  interpretation of the dogma.
So I affirm Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation and LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc cannot be exceptions.So there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II to AG 7 and LG 14. Neither are there any exceptions to the dogma. So I affirm the dogma and baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.
Similarly I affirm the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845  which  says all need to be baptised in the Catholic Church for salvation and for me there cannot be any exception in the Catechism to 1257 .Since we humans cannot know of any case of someone saved, because 'God is not limited to the Sacraments'(CCC 1257).Physically, personally we cannot know of any exception to the dogma in the present times.
I know that this is not the interpretation of Christine Niles, Michael Voris and the Archdiocese of Detroit.
For them LG 16, LG 14  etc refer to objectively seen cases in 2015.So they are explicit exceptions  to the dogma for them. This was how Cardinal Francis Marchetti Selvaggiani originaly understood it.So Vatican Council II cannot be Feeneyite for them.
For me Vatican Council II and the Catechism are Feeneyite.There are no explicit exceptions.
For  Ralph Martin,  Vatican Council II is not Feeneyite. Since for him there are explicit exceptions to the dogma . This is his irrational reasoning.
Patrick Archbald on the Remnant has written that we cannot have it both ways.Here I have showed how you can have it both ways. I affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus and invisible for us; theoretically accepted and not defacto for us, baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance.
-Lionel Andrades

 
Forward Boldly: Br. Andre-Marie 
 
 
 

1 comment:

George Brenner said...


From Singulari Quidem / Pope Pius IX

" For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains "we shall see God as He is" [1 John 3:2], we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but, as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic
teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" [Eph. 4:5]; it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pope Pius IX beautifully and with the most profound words of instruction and caution commands Catholics how to believe, live and defend their Catholic Faith. He recognizes the possible mercies of God while at the same time demanding that ALL Catholics adhere and teach that all must believe in one God, one faith and one Baptism and it is UNLAWFUL to proceed further in inquiry. The Church has failed miserably in the last sixty plus years in that only remnant of Catholics have lived by these words. Most Catholics believe that there is no need for conversion to the Catholic Church and for that we are in a great punishment and see morality in the world in a death spiral.

George Brenner