In The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized they used Marchetti theology, an irrational theology

Lionel:

In The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized they used Marchetti theology, an irrational theology. This is the theology being used by the International Theological Commission. It is also known as Cushingism.
Cushingism assumes there is known salvation outside the Church. Then it infers wrongly that since there is known salvation outside the Church these ‘known cases’ are ‘explicit’ exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So since there are exceptions to the dogma not every one needs to enter the Church formally for salvation according to the Cushing-Marchetti thesis.
Since not every one needs to enter the Church there is salvation outside the Church for the ITC. So it is possible that babies can be saved without the baptism of water is the ITC, Pope Benedict XVI thesis.
It is also based on an irrational premise i.e we personally know of deceased in the present time who are in heaven without ‘faith and baptism’

Nathan:

Lionel,

As you know, the “ITC-Benedict” hypothesis doesn’t rest on the presumption that their is salvation outside the Church. Rather, all salvation is through the Church, although there is a possibility that those formally outside the Church can be saved through the Church, if they cooperate with God’s grace and if they are formally outside the Church through no fault of their own. The Church hasn’t repudiated EENS. You’ll also note the concept of the invincibly ignorant being possibly saved without formally joining the Church, dates back at least to the discovery of the Americas and can even be found in St Thomas Aquinas’ concept of “potential Christians

 

Nathan:

As you know, the “ITC-Benedict” hypothesis doesn’t rest on the presumption that their is salvation outside the Church.
Lionel:

Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 assumes there is known salvation outside the Church. He personally did not know of anyone saved outside the Church i.e without faith and baptism.
No magisterial document before 1949 says there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.No magisterial document before 1949 says that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicit exceptions to the dogma. They mention the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance. They do not state that these cases are exceptions.This has to be inferred wrongly. Marchetti made the wrong inference.
Summary:
1.He did not know any personal cases. Since these cases would only be known to God. They are unknown to us.
2.The Council of Trent and Mystici Corporis does not state that there are known exceptions to the dogma.
3.No magisterial document before 1949 claims that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma. There was not historical precedent for Cardinal Marchetti.

Rather, all salvation is through the Church,
Lionel:
This is the new theology in the Catechism of the Catholic Chuch which accomodates Marchetti's objective error.It was an objective error since we personally can see or know any baptism of desire case in the present times. These persons are in Heaven. So being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire had nothing to do with the traditional Feeneyite concept of the dogma.

 although there is a possibility that those formally outside the Church can be saved through the Church, if they cooperate with God’s grace and if they are formally outside the Church through no fault of their own.
Lionel:
Yes and this would be a hypotehtical case for us. It is theoretical and speculative. It is a possibility.So it cannot be a defacto exception to the dogma in the present time. I cannot meet someone saved as such in Rome today afternoon

The Church hasn’t repudiated EENS.
Lionel:
In reality it has.
The text of the dogma does not mention the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, hypothetical or defacto.
Redemptoris Missio and Dominus Iesus do not affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma.
The International Theological Commission in two of its papers have criticized Fr.Leonard Feeney. This includes the ITC paper on Limbo.

 

 You’ll also note the concept of the invincibly ignorant being possibly saved without formally joining the Church, dates back at least to the discovery of the Americas and can even be found in St Thomas Aquinas’ concept of “potential Christians.”
Lionel:
Yes and it was always assumed that God would send a preacher to save these people( Aquinas) or they would be baptised with water before they go to Heaven ( St.Francis Xavier).
________________________

 

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION USES PREMISE THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT : LIMBO
  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission_29.html

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commissions.html

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission.html

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vaticans-international-theological.html
 VATICAN COUNCIL II REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF RELIGIONS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vatican-council-ii-rejects-theology-of.html

Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/secretary-of-international-theological.html#links

-Lionel Andrades


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