Messainlatino has posted a brief report titled Extra ecclesiam nulla salus but refers to ' a formula' and not 'a dogma'.I have not found an Italian translation of the dogma 1.
In Italy, otherwise, they assume that the Marchetti letter of 1949 was correct. So for Messainlatino, the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are
(1) physically known and visible to us and so (2) are an explicit exception in 2015 to 'the formula' extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This is also the irrationality of Una Voce Italy 1993, whom they have cited.
When Messainlatino in other posts and comments say that there are exceptions to the dogma, they do not realize that Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani who issued the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was in heresy. He was in heresy for rejecting the dogma with an irrationality.That same stupidity of 'being able to see the dead who are now in Heaven and who are explicit exceptions to the dogma' is repeated by MessainLatino and Una Voce.
MessainLatino, like Una Voce International, does not want to say that the dogma and Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation and so present day Hindus, Buddhists, Jews,Muslims, Protestants and Orthodox Christians are on the way to Hell with no exceptions, unless they convert into the Catholic Church. Neither do they want to say that we cannot see or meet anyone in 2015 who will be saved or is saved without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.So there are no known exceptions to the dogma.
They are as limited and at home with Cardinal Carlo Martini S.J who rejected the dogma and whom they quote.
The same irrational reasoning 'of being able to see the dead who are now in Heaven and who are explicit exceptions to the dogma' Messainlatino otherwise uses, to interpret Vatican Council II.
Lumen Gentium 16 refers to those who are saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water. This is even though the text of Lumen Gentium 16 does not say that these cases are saved without the baptism of water.Since for Messainlatino it is possible to 'be able to see the dead who are now in Heaven and who are explicit exceptions to the dogma' Lumen Gentium 16 contradicts 'the formula' extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So Vatican Council II is a break with the dogma and Tradition.
Lumen Gentium 16 refers to those who are saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water. This is even though the text of Lumen Gentium 16 does not say that these cases are saved without the baptism of water.Since for Messainlatino it is possible to 'be able to see the dead who are now in Heaven and who are explicit exceptions to the dogma' Lumen Gentium 16 contradicts 'the formula' extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So Vatican Council II is a break with the dogma and Tradition.
This was the understanding of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who called outside the church no salvatiion 'an aphorism' (CCC 846) and did not quote the text of the dogma in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Messainlatino is of no help to the Franciscans of the Immaculate(F.I).Since Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Cardinal Braz de Avez and Fr.Fidenzio Volpi want the F.I to accept Vatican Council II while assuming that we human beings are ' able to see the dead who are now in Heaven and who are explicit exceptions to the dogma'.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
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