Tuesday, January 27, 2015

May be you could talk to John Martignoni and Fr.P. Stefano Visintin OSB

Creative Minority Report
 
Dear Pat Archbald,
Please let me know how you would answer these two questions :
TWO QUESTIONS
1) Do we personally know the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc,can we see them, are they physically visible to us in 2015 ?
2) Since we do not know any of these cases, in real life, they are not visible for us, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, or Ad Gentes 7 which states 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation ?
If you answer to is :1) No we do not know any case of the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience etc and we cannot physically see them in 2015 and 2) since they are not known; not visible to us they are not explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II - then you are rational.You would be saying that there are no known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in 2015.Defacto, objectively, you and I would not know of any such case.If there was any such exception, it would only be known to God.And if there was such a case of someone saved, or going to be saved, without the baptism of water, it would be a possibility known only to God and unknown to us human beings.Possibilities are not exceptions. Hypothetical cases cannot be defacto exceptions in the present times.
So do you think the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made an objective mistake when it alleges that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the historical interpretation of the dogma , the 'rigorist interpretation' ?
How could Fr.Leonard Feeney be wrong when there cannot be any known exception?
Many Catholic priests in Rome to whom I have spoken to say there are no known exceptions and the Marchetti Letter of 1949 made an objective mistake. It assumed that the dead are visible, to be exceptions to the dogma.It is a fact of life, that we cannot see these exceptions.
Could you confirm this ?
May be you could talk to John Matignoni the apologist at EWTN who is the Director of Evangelisation and Stewardship in the diocese of Birmingham in Alabama. He told me ,'Zero cases of something are not excceptions to the dogma'.
May be you could speak with Fr.P. Stefano Visintin OSB, Dean of the Faculty of Theology at the Pontifical University St.Anselm, Rome. He says there are no known exceptions.
The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are possibilities, he said, but are not known exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation.
Prof. Visintin was speaking with me on Oct.15,2013 at the University of St.Anselm in Rome.
So did the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued by Cardinal Francesco Selvagginai Marchetti make a mistake for you ? Was this document magisterial or only an interoffice communication? -Lionel Andrades
 
 
January 26, 2015

So the real issue with extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II is whether you are interpreting them with or without the irrational premise

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