Tuesday, December 16, 2014

Michael Voris assumes that being saved in invincible ignorance is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

It is not that they go to Hell if it is a case of being invincibly ignorant of the faith, if it is truly invincibly ignorant (1:40)...
 (2:50)True someone may not go to Hell because they did not know the faith, it was not properly explained to him.- Michael Voris
The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus says all need to be formal members of the Catholic Church. Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.We do not know any one saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water. There is no such case known to Michael Voris .
So being saved in invincible ignorance with or without the baptism of water, has nothing to do with the traditional interpretation of the dogma according to the Church Councils, the popes and saints.
Being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire had nothing to do with the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.It would have been an exception if there were known and visible cases.
 
This was the error made by the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing. They assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to visible and known cases. So they concluded that there were exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
 Michael Voris makes the same Cushingite error.He assumes there are known and visible exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in the present times.Invincible ignorance has nothing to do with the dogma.Hypothetical cases cannot be defacto exceptions to the dogma.
So it is no surprise that Michael Voris finds Vatican Council II ambigous. For him Lumen Gentium 16 ( being saved in invincible ignorance) would be an exception to the dogma.This is also the error made by the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the communities of Fr.Leonard Feeney in the dioceses of Manchester and Worcester,USA. LG 16 does not state that these cases are known and visible to us in the present times!.Neither does it claim that invincible ignorance is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is wrongly inferred by so many. They include Michael Voris.
If Church Militant could only make a Christmas Greeting saying give your friends a premium subsciption this Christmas, since outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation and all need to formally enter the Church in 2014 to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.We do not know any one who will be saved in invincible ignorance  or the baptism of desire.There are no such cases known over the last 70 years and more.So being saved in invincible ignorance has nothing to do with the traditional teaching on salvation.All in 2014-2015 need to formally enter the Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.So learn more about the Catholic Faith!-Lionel Andrades
 

Denied!

Franciscans of the Immaculate, SSPX note : Cardinal Ratzinger used an irrational inference in the interpretation of Dominus Iesus

Franciscans of the Immaculate (FFI) and the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX)  be aware.  Cardinal Ratzinger used an irrational premise. With this false inference he intepreted magisterial documents.So during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II he rejected traditional teachings in a subtle way. Dominus Iesus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Redemptoris Missio have all been water downed. Cardinal Ratzinger assumed that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are known and visible to us in real life. So he  then assumed there were  explicit exceptions to traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Feeneyite version was rejected as heresy. Also rejected was Tradition  according to the popes and  saints before 1949. For Cardinal Ratzinger, and then Pope Benedict XVI, some persons  now in Heaven were  visible exceptions on earth.They were exceptions  to the baptism of water being necessary for all.Traditional teaching on salvation was rejected. It is with this 'empirical observation', I-can-see-the-dead-saved-without-the-baptism-of-water, that he screened Dominus Iesus etc.
For him Lumen Gentium 16, Lumen Gentium 8,Nostra Aetate 2, Unitatis Redintigratio 3 etc refer to objective exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Church. So he could not simply say in Dominus Iesus  that all need to enter the Church formally and defacto there are no exceptions.
He could not say it. Since for him LG 16 ( saved with invincible ignorance) refers to known salvation outside the Church ( i.e without faith and baptism).Pope Pius XII was correct and Fr.Feeney and the previous popes were wrong for him.
The text of Vatican Council II does not refer to salvation in invincible ignorance as being explicit for us . It does not say that we personally know any one saved as such. Neither does it state that those who are saved as such will not have received the baptism of water  before going to Heaven.However he infers all this.
Cardinal Ratzinger  assumed (1) that these cases were personally known to us( for them to be exceptions). (2) They refer to persons  saved without the baptism of water and who did   not need to formally enter  the Catholic Church.Where does any magisterial document before 1949 make this claim? There is no precedent.Mystici Corporis and the Council of Trent only refer to implicit desire/ baptism of desire. It is not said that these cases are 1) visible to us in real life or 2) are explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation.
 
 
Instead we have been a new new doctrine.It is irrational. It is an objective mistake in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.It  was not corrected by the Prefect of the Congregation for the  Doctrine of the Faith(CDF),Vatican.Instead the CDF  allowed the oversight to condition Dominis Iesus.Cardinal Ratzinger was a Cushingite.Irrational Cushingism can be detected all over magisterial documents he approved.
When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger approved Dominus Iesus in 2000 he  assumed that Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong.For Pope Benedict XVI  there was known salvation outside the Church. Those saved with the baptism of desire etc were assumed to be known.They were visible for him. Upon this irrationality the new theology is founded.
 
Dominus Iesus: 
20.For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation.
Lionel:
The dogma says all need to formally enter the Church for salvation and so does Vatican Council II (AG 7). Dominus Iesus says those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church are saved. Who are they? Do we know any such person over the last 100 years saved, who was  not a formal member of the Church? Do we know any one who will be saved as such in future?
How can hypothetical cases, be exceptions to the dogma approved by three Church Councils? The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued by a cardinal ( Marchetti-Selvaggini), in which he has made an objective mistake, is sufficient to do away with the dogma and the traditional interpretation?
 
Dominus Iesus: 
21.With respect to the way in which the salvific grace of God — which is always given by means of Christ in the Spirit and has a mysterious relationship to the Church — comes to individual non-Christians, the Second Vatican Council limited itself to the statement that God bestows it “in ways known to himself...
Lionel:
Who are these mysterious people saved without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith? They are not known to us in 2014. They would have to be known to be exceptions to the tradional interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney. So they are irrelevant to the dogma Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441 on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.There are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to Cantate Dominio which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The dogma says all heretics ( Protestants) and schismatics ( Orthodox Christians) need to convert into the Catholic Church formally to avoid the fires of  Hell.The Jews need to do the same said this Church Council.
Without the irrational inference Vatican Council II is traditional and in line with extra ecclesiam nulla salus, according to Fr.Leonard Feeney, the Syllabus of Errors and the Catechism of Pope Pius X. With the inference of the dead being visible Vatican Council II becomes a break with the past.
So if the Franciscans of the Immaculate and the SSPX avoid the irrational inference, which assumes salvation in Heaven, in some cases, are physically visible to us on earth, then Vatican Council II can be accepted as being traditional on other religions and Christian communities.Vatican Council II (without the false premise) would become ideological for Pope Francis and Fr.Fidenzio Volpi.More important, they would have no rational basis, no citation in the Council, to support their liberal and heretical position.-Lionel Andrades

In Dominus Iesus Cardinal Ratzinger chose the irrational inference and rejected the traditional dogma on salvation http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/12/in-dominus-iesus-cardinal-ratzinger-has.html