Friday, December 12, 2014

All Things New : Mobile Command


The baptism of desire is not a problem for me. As long as you do not imply that it refers to known and visible cases, who are explicit exceptions, to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

 
What you call meaningless to you is the teaching of the Church.
Lionel:
For something/someone  to be an exception it/he must exist and  must be different. If there is an orange in a box of apples then that orange is an exception.It exists there in that box so it is an exception.
If any pope, cardinal or bishop says that the baptism of desire or being saved in invincible ignorance ( without the baptism of water) exists in our reality then it is to be rejected.Since in general we cannot with our physical eyes see any one in Heaven. They would have to exist physically in our reality. It is then that we can say, "Hey look at this guy. He lives down the road. He was saved with the baptism of desire and without the baptism of water. He is an exception to the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church on the neccessity of faith and the baptism of water for all".
Or you would say,"Meet my aunt. She is such a wonderful person.God told her she would be saved in invincible ignorance and so she does not have to convert into the Catholic Church.She is an exception to the Feeneyite concept of extra ecclesiam nulla salus".
So this was the error made by 'the Church' in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 . They assumed that we could physically see a person on earth who would be saved without the baptism of water and so Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong.
This is Cushingism. Cushingism means assuming the dead who are now in Heaven are physically visible to us on earth; they exist in our reality.
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Judging the cases is not up to you, it's up to the Church.
Lionel:
If you say that there are explicit exceptions to the dogma then you have judged? Someone you know does not need the baptism of water to go to Heaven ?
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Examples of known cases ARE THE SAINTS
Lionel:
The saints are not physically seen on earth. We believe St. Francis of Assisi is in Heaven but we cannot see him.
For there to be an exception to the dogma the case would have to be personally known or seen on earth.
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We have another interesting case here IF YOU BELIEVE THE SAINT WHO SAID SO.A True Story concerning Baptism of Desire and the Cure’ of Ars, St. John Vianney
Lionel:
The baptism of desire is not a problem for me. As long as you do not imply that it refers to known and visible cases, who are explicit exceptions, to the interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeeny.
The baptism of desire ( invisible for us) is compatible with Fr.Leonard Feeney's 'rigorist interpretation 'of the dogma.
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JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ANY CASE IN 2014 DOESN'T MEAN A THING.
Lionel:
It means there are no known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma according to the Church Councils, popes, saints and Fr.Leonard Feeeny.
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FACTS ARE FACTS REGARDLESS WHETHER A CASE EVEN EXISTS.
Lionel:
It is a fact that a case of the baptism of desire, of someone saved without the baptism of water( or with the baptism of water) , does not exist in 2014 for us. We do not know anyone saved us such.
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You don't know any known cases who were saved with baptism of water either.
Lionel:
Yes and I am not saying that the baptism of desire ( with or without the baptism of water) is an exception to the dogma. The Letter of the Holy Office suggests it is.This is how Vatican Council II is accepted. LG 16 is supposed to be an exception to the dogma. The same false inference has led to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 saying God is not limited to the Sacraments. Defacto he is limited to the Sacraments according to the dogma, the Syllabus of Errors etc.
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Does that mean baptism doesn't save since you don't know any actual cases?
Lionel:
 
It means that a person can be saved with the baptism of desire followed by the baptism of water and it would be known only to God. It is not an exception or relevant to the traditional teaching.In general God saves with the baptism of water. It is given to adults with Catholic Faith.
-Lionel Andrades
 

When the Magisterium says God is not limited to the Sacraments it is an objective error since the norm is the Sacrament of Baptism and you and I do not know of any exceptions  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/12/when-magisterium-says-god-is-not.html

 

Lineamenta of the Synod of 2015 confirms Pope Francis is to the target the Eucharist once again

On Tuesday, the Vatican released the lineamenta, or preparatory document, for the next synod called by Pope Francis for October 2015 .The lineamenta confirms that Pope Francis is going to target the Eucharist once again.He will meet the One World Religion agenda.
 
The divorced and remarried will be given the Eucharist. The Eucharist is already being given to those Catholics who are pro abortion. The Eucharist is being given in  Australia, England, USA etc to active homosexuals.The Eucharist is also being given to Catholic politicians in England who have approved homosexual marriages.
-Lionel Andrades
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Mother of Salvation: I have a message for the Roman Catholic Clergy

November 21st, 2014
I am the Immaculate Virgin Mary, the Mother of God – the Mother of Salvation. Today, I have a message for the Roman Catholic Clergy and come to you on behalf of my beloved Son, Jesus Christ.
I call out to all of my Son’s sacred servants, who serve Him in these times of great trials in the Church. You are the vanguard of His Most Holy Sacraments and have been called by my Son to serve Him in the salvation of all souls and, because of this, you have a great responsibility to Him. Your duty must always be to serve my Son and His Body – His Church – and to ensure that His Most Holy Word is adhered to at all times.
There will be times of great pain and persecution ahead and you must prepare for this now. In the future, your faith will be tested to its limit and you will be forced to agree to take a new vow, where you will be asked to show allegiance to a new doctrine, which will not be of my Son.
Those amongst you, who will recognise the false doctrine, when it is presented to you, must not succumb to it. When you are instructed to adapt and amend the Most Holy Sacraments, you must run. My Son’s Church is to be tested beyond its endurance. To those of you who may discard the Truth in favour of a new amended doctrine – which they will say is necessary to suit men’s needs – know that this will be a great betrayal of the Word of God.
Because of the Holy vows you took to serve my Son, you have a duty to God’s children to feed them with the Body and Blood of my Son, Jesus Christ. There will come a time, however, when you will be forced to amend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. There will be those amongst you who will know, instantly, that a great wrong is being committed and so you must turn your backs.
You must continue to feed the souls of those, who rely on you to feed them with the Most Holy Eucharist. If you remain loyal to my Son and continue to serve God’s children, as it is your duty, you will serve Him with great dignity. I ask that you pray My Most Holy Rosary daily to give you the strength you will need and for protection from Satan, because those times ahead, which are almost upon you, will become unbearable. By keeping the Seal of the Living God prayer close to you at all times, you will receive extra Protection from the evil one.
There will be many priests among you who will not find the courage to uphold the Word of God, but you must never be afraid to show allegiance to my Son. If you betray my Son you will bring with you innocent souls, who will find themselves, unwittingly, being brought into error and into a terrible darkness.
Satan has penetrated my Son’s Church for some time but every time when the chaos and confusion he caused became unbearable, this was diffused because of the faith of my Son’s beloved sacred servants. Now that the faith of many priests has been weakened and, in some cases, completely destroyed, the gates of hell have opened and great danger lies ahead.
You must never be tempted to forego all that my Son taught. My Son has never changed. His Word remains ingrained in the Rock upon which His Church was built. His Sacraments bring souls the Light that they need to sustain life. If you betray my Son, you destroy life itself for without my Son’s Presence the world would not exist today.
Blessed are those who truly love my Son, because they will be the ones who will lead the way by example.
Your beloved Mother
Mother of Salvation
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Layer by layer, their evil intents will become clear as they trip themselves up

Tuesday, March 19th, 2013 
My dearly beloved daughter, My Holy Word spreads like a powerful wind across the whole world, at this time, through these Messages.
Many will hear My Voice, whether they wish to do so, or not, for It will sound like thunder before the storm. Some will recognise the Holy Spirit as It engulfs their souls. Others, unfortunately, will not, but I say this to them. You have heard My Voice. It has stirred your soul and, yet, you block Me. Yet, you turn your back. You may fear My Voice, as It can be overwhelming, but the one thing you cannot do is to ignore Me.
So powerful is My Holy Spirit that It will touch your soul, whether you wish this to be or not. To those of you who run, hide and pretend that I Am not Present, you should know that you will be unable to deny My Presence, no matter how hard you try.
Some of you will resist the Truth as you lack faith in My Promise to offer you eternal life. Many of you find this frightening and would prefer to think that the Great Day of the Lord will not take place in your lifetime. And so you close your eyes, block your ears and seek solace in other things.
The security you feel in trying to find peace, where it can be found, will be short lived. Soon you will be denied the Word of God. Words you have been used to hearing will disappear from the homilies and the letters from your bishops and cardinals, delivered to you and all those unsuspecting followers of Mine.
Masonic sects infiltrate the Church in Rome. Make no mistake – there can only be one pope in one lifetime.
Many of My followers will now reject My Holy Word, the Truth, just as they did during My trial on earth. You, My daughter, will be rejected as a heretic, sneered at and mocked. You will become a thorn in the side of the false prophet. But soon, all will see the subtle acts and the sly gestures of those false imposters who preside over My Throne in Rome, for they amount to sacrilege.
Layer by layer, their evil intents will become clear as they trip themselves up and those, blessed with the insight bestowed upon them by Me, will realise the abomination, which is unravelling.
The beast is now ready and forms a secular circle, comprised of some of the world’s leaders, as one in union with all that is against the Kingdom of God. Demonic spirits, who invade these poor souls, will, because of their pride and arrogance, show themselves for all to see through their gestures, which will be scrutinised and questioned until the final answers will dawn on those blessed with the Gift of Discernment.
Trust in Me. Trust in this Gift of Trust. Let Me hold you and guide you through this jungle of evil creatures who wish to devour your souls.
Your Jesus
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Gregorian University interprets the Letter of the Holy Office,Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the irrational column

The Department of the Theology of Religions at the Pontifical  Gregorian University Rome has invited students to study  as an ordinary student working towards an academic degree or a guest student taking selected courses.The students will be taught  to interpret Magisterial documents of the Catholic Church using the irrational right hand side ( red) column.

VATICAN COUNCIL II
All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), good and holy things in other religions or ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) etc are either:
LEFT HAND COLUMN................................. RIGHT HAND COLUMN
implicit                                                         or explicit for us.
hypothetical                                                or known in reality.
invisible                                                       or visible in the flesh.
dejure ( in principle)                                   or defacto ( in fact ).
subjective                                                    or objective.

Lionel:
At the Gregorian University they intepret LG 16, NA 2 etc as being exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They use the right hand column. Since there is 'known' salvation outside the Church all non Catholics do not have to convert is their opinion.This is the basis of their  theology of religions.It is the reason given by Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, former professor at the Gregorian University and President of the International Theological Commission(ITC).He suggests that since Pope Pius XII corrected Fr.Leonard Feeney's exclusive ecclesiology there could be a theology of religions.He says this  on the ITC website. It was approved by Pope Benedict XVI.



LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE
From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949.
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
Lionel:
'who knowing'
This phrase can be interpreted  with the Left Hand Column or the Right Hand Column.
According to the Right Hand Column 'who knows' or who is in invincible ignorance' are explicit, known in reality, visible in the flesh for us in 2014 and so they are relevant to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It is an exception to the dogma.
According to the Left Hand Column ' who knows' or who is in invincible ignorance refer to implicit, invisible, hypothetical cases for us and so 'who knows' is known only to God and unknown to us in personal cases. It is not relevant or an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
At the Gregorian University they interpret this phrase with the right hand column which is irrational. The result is a break with Tradition.
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In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
Lionel:
can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing
This can be interpreted according to either column. At the Gregorian University they choose the irrational column. 'Only in desire and longing'  is considered visible for us. Otherwise how could it be an exception to the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney ?-
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The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

Lionel:

Again the right hand column is chosen.

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However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

Lionel:

when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire.

It is implied that these cases are objective for us and so are an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.

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 These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.

Lionel:

the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.
In other words they are visible and known to us. It is inferred that we can judge who is saved or going to be saved as such.

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With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, , in < Denzinger>, n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, < Quanto conficiamur moerore>, in , n. 1677).

Lionel:
who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire,...
This is interpreted with the right hand column at the Gregorian Pontifical University Rome.
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From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical , fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to those within the Church and those without.
Lionel:
In other words Fr.Leonard Feeeny and the St. Benedict Center should have said that the baptism of desire is visible to them in particular cases. So they were wrong fior not choosing the right hand column.
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Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities,...
Lionel:
Which interprets the baptism of desire etc using the right hand column.
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Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "" which is prescribed by the sacred canons.
Lionel:
The imprimatur would only be granted to those who use the rught hand column in the interpretation of Church documents.

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Fr.Bryan Lobo S.J, Director of the syncretistic Department of the Theology of Religions,Gregorian University, Rome

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

Lionel:

who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

Those who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament and who will be saved are objective and visible for the Department of the Theology of Religions.So they are exceptions to the interpretation  of Fr.Leonard Feeney.

Lionel:
but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
In other words we know of exceptions to the interpretation of  Fr.Leonard Feeney. At the Gregorian University they know of some such case. The know the name and surname of someone who was saved without the baptism of water this year.
This irrational inference was used in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. TIt was accepted in Vatican Council II and it was repeated by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.In 1965 the excommunication of Fr.Leonard Feeney was still maintained by Cardinal Ruchard Cushing who was active at Vatican Council II.
The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus tells us that God has chosen to bind salvation to the Sacraments of the Catholic Church.Here we are told that God is not limited to the Sacraments as if they know of some case who is an exception.
There is no Church document before 1949 which states that God is not limited to the Sacraments. The baptism of desire etc is mentioned but without the irrational inference.
It is with this irrationality that the Department of the Theology of Religions and the Missiology Department  at the Gregorian University invite students  to study and receive an academic degree.-Lionel Andrades
The brochure of the Department of Theology of Religions









Vatican Council II is in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus (the Feenyite version, the 'rigorist interpretation') but not according to the SSPX, sedevacantists,the St.Benedict Centers, apologists and the Magisterium who use irrational Cushingism

Vatican Council II is in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus (the Feenyite version, the 'rigorist interpretation') and not according to the SSPX, sedevacantists,the St.Benedict Centers, Catholic apologists, the Magisterium  and others in general who use irrational Cushingism.
Here are some of the many who interpret Vatican Council II with Cushingism.
 
 
-Lionel Andrades
Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe

When the Magisterium says God is not limited to the Sacraments it is an objective error since the norm is the Sacrament of Baptism and you and I do not know of any exceptions

 

I was precise, but you're not paying attention.
You have argued that baptism is a necessity of means for salvation.

Lionel:
Necessity of means and pecept are meaningless to me since I cannot judge any such case - and neither can you. We do not know of any such person who has been saved or will be saved according to necessity of means or precept.
So I have not argued that the baptism of water is a necessitty of means.
Every one needs the baptism of water to remove Original sin.So there are no known exceptions in 2014.
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Canon law clearly and unambiguously states otherwise, "OR AT LEAST IN DESIRE is necessary"
 Baptism is a necessity of precept, not of means.

Lionel:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says all need the baptism of water for salvation(CCC 1257) and so does Vatican Council II (AG 7).
If the Code of Canon Law the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257) is saying that there are exceptions, known in the present times, then it is a factual mistake. Since we do not and cannot know of any exceptions.
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Trent says the same thing. Pope St. Pius X says the same thing. And so have all the rest, but you have twisted it into meaning a hypothetical only, but its not hypothetical. It's a fact!
 

Lionel:
So please give me the citation where the Council of Trent or Pope Pius X says that the baptism of desire is visible in the present times to be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.You are unable to cite any such text.
If the Code of Canon Law or some other Church document infers this then it is a factual mistake. It is a fact of life that we cannot see or know someone saved with the baptism of desire or according to the necessity of precept or means , or invincible ignorance(LG 16), a ray of the Truth(NA 2) etc. This is an objective error.
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The literal interpretation is not what you're saying. It's what the Church says by way of catechism and law.

Lionel:
CCC 1257 says God is not limited to the Sacraments and also God is limited to the Sacraments. The Magisterium ihere is confusing .
When the Magisterium says God is not limited to the Sacraments it is an objective error since the norm is the Sacrament of Baptism and you and I do not know of any exceptions. So how can 'the Church' say God is not limited to the Sacraments?
This objective error was first made in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which criticized Fr.Leonard Feeeny and the St. Benedict Center .The Letter was using irrational Cushingism.
-Lionel Andrades