Thursday, September 4, 2014


An account was sent our way a while back by a hospice nurse in Michigan. We are keeping names out of it. It has to do with a man, a dying patient, whom she called Alan. He was succumbing to bladder cancer that had metastasized "everywhere."
On his deathbed, Alan, 77, a former engineer who owned his own company, allegedly recounted (this is fairly recently) how he'd had a near-death episode twenty-two years before, during open-heart surgery. She recorded it in detail.
It was an event, he told the hospice nurse, that had drastically changed his life -- for "Alan" had been shown hell by the Archangel Michael, at the direction of Jesus, Who saved him after much pleading but nonetheless wanted him to take back an idea of what his fate would have been had he died at that particular moment.
He'd been a cold, selfish, rude fellow, not even loving toward his wife and children, a man who cared only about money and his personal comfort, one who laughed at the notion of God, when an anesthesiologist offered to pray with him. We're excerpting a piece of his testimony. It's tough stuff -- not for the squeamish. So keep that in mind before reading on. If you don't want to delve into this bit of darkness, simply do not. If you know anyone who is an atheist, you may want to forward it to him.
Truth? Fiction? We're using it because of some striking similarities with other, equally obscure near-death accounts; in short we felt it had the ring of truth to it.
For some reason, intriguingly, hell experiences seem to be coming to the fore. It seems to go along with the signs of our times. We'll be discussing this in-depth at our retreats.
It had been a close call with the netherworld.
The story is certainly dark. For some, it may be upsetting.
As "Alan" put it, "I could have been was crushed, completely crushed by my own sinfulness. I saw my soul as God sees it you see, and it was horrible.
"My soul was covered in holes and filth, a filth that I had willingly accumulated and heaped upon myself! So much that I had become unrecognizable! Like a decaying corpse, covered in oozing, rancid, living filth, weighing me down, screaming out my shame before my God. I should have willingly run as far as I could, but there was nowhere to go. I was stuck solid in place and forced to view it all, without excuse, without relief, and my shame grew heavier and heavier before such incomprehensible Purity.
"The next thing I knew, my Guides and I were standing in a valley, completely desolate and surrounded by huge, black mountains, jagged and barren. Their base was deep, deeper than the path we were standing on, and they extended to depths that seemed to have no end and no bottom. We walked along this very wide path and it slowly descended. At first the path was smooth, but as we walked it very became steep and slippery. I was afraid I would fall, because on each side of the pathway were horrible looking creatures, crawling up from the darkness, snarling and cursing me, reaching out their hands trying to grasp at my heels as my Guides urged me on.
"The deeper we went, the thicker the air, and the darker the atmosphere became. In the distance, I heard very faintly, a terrible ruckus, fighting, arguing and screaming. I didn't want to go any further and begged my angels to please take me out of there. They said to me 'You must see what awaits sinners who reject God'. We continued going further and further toward an immense and living blackness. At the end of our descent was a huge and formidable looking structure that seemed to go on forever both in depth and height.
"The fear that surged through me was overwhelming and I wanted to run away but was held steadfast by my angel guides. These immense gates were locked shut with enormous black bolts from the outside. Michael raised his hand, the locks released and the gates opened. Immediately a sickening stench filled my nose that both burned and nauseated me. Like rotting flesh in the heat of a summer sun soaked in burning tar and sulfur. It was terrifying and I was so frightened that I clung onto my guardian angel. As the gates opened completely, the sounds that hit my ears made me tremble with fear. Guttural screaming in language that was so utterly filthy, that I would never repeat it to anyone.
"The cacophony of screams, blasphemies, and continual weeping filled the air and reverberated through me filling me with an intense dread and indescribable terror. As we entered, my mind filled with an immediate knowledge of each of the souls I saw imprisoned here. What I witnessed in this place of suffering is so indescribable, that words fail in every aspect. The stench and the heat alone are completely unbearable. To my right I saw black, shining walls that extended to dizzying heights. Within the walls small niches were carved out of the blackened stone, one on top of the other which extended the width and depth of this wall.
"They were an innumerable number, thousands upon thousands of them. Each one was of similar shape and size; they were circular in shape and each contained a soul that was crammed into it, unable to move, unable to adjust itself for any comfort. Their faces were turned outward toward the center of this dungeon, and they wailed, screamed and cursed continually. Wide, bulging eyes with expressions of torture, hatred and despair so excruciating that I had to look away. 'Look!' my angel said, 'Look!'
"The despair that filled each and every one of them was without respite and ate at them continually. The knowledge of each action that propelled them into this pit of darkness was always played before their souls in a continual stream of remembrance that only they could see. They knew of no other person there other than their demonic torturers. Besides pain and despair, they suffered an overwhelming and penetrating loneliness.
"So intense was their suffering that no words can possibly describe such a horror. I could see the cause of their torture, as their lives continually played out before them, stopping at specific times showing a particular episode, a particular sin. Or an opportunity to have done good, but instead chose to do nothing. They screamed out insults at God, cursing out names of parents, lovers, even their own children. Scenes over and over, not only of their own sins, but how their sins affected other people. The hurt they caused, how their words cut down and destroyed other people.
"If another soul ended up in this abyss because of their actions, they also were held responsible for that soul to an extent, which intensified their sufferings twofold, threefold, or however many souls were damned in part or completely because of them. Demons in the most hideous forms, some half animal, some looking more human, stood near the faces of certain souls screaming out at them from their pit in the wall.
"These demons grabbed the faces of those tortured and suffering souls and pried open their mouths with their claws, so wide that it ripped the flesh along the sides of their cheeks. They became white, like molten metal, as they screamed in horror. The demons shoved them deeper into their slim fitting pit of torture, as they hurled hideous insults at them. But one niche was empty and standing in front of it was a horrible demon who pointed at me, cursing and laughing, then pointed to the empty niche. I knew immediately that this was reserved for me. I was overwhelmed with terror and I stepped back and screamed which only increased the obvious pleasure that horrible creature as he lunged at me.
"I clawed at my angel and attempted to flee, but was calmed down as he assured me that God's mercy had not only prevented me from staying here, but will also guard against any attack by any of the creatures in this place. As we continued further into this abyss, I saw a desolate looking wall lined with cells. In one particular cell was a horrific soul, diseased looking and completely filthy. This particular man while on earth manipulated, abused, and forced women into prostitution. I saw that he was a cruel taskmaster, he fed his women drugs, beat them frequently into submission until their bodies and their wills were completely broken.
"On earth he was complete in his cruelty and in his greed and was possessed by an insatiable lust. Here in his prison, he was forced to experience over and over again what he inflicted upon the women in his domain, only magnified to an unimaginable degree. He was continually mutilated by the most horrible creatures who mercilessly tore at his skin, ripping him apart from the crotch to the throat, exposing him to unbelievable ridicule and humiliation.
"Over and over again, each torture exceeding the former in its brutality and cruelty. Screaming endlessly for help, he let out guttural, ear piercing screams, pleading at his torturers, which only incensed their hatred and their cruelty toward their trapped victim. At the end of each torture, his body was reduced to mere bits and pieces. His body then returned to normal and his tortures began again.
"To explain it with words is nearly impossible. Each and every one of these souls in this place knew exactly why they were there. They saw very clearly the choices in their life that imprisoned them. You see, God doesn't put us into hell…we put ourselves there. Every soul at judgment sees with perfect clarity their life as God sees it… hey then judge themselves in His light. There is no rebuttal, there is no arguing with God, because their sinfulness before absolute Purity cries out their judgment you see?
"It is us, our actions, our unkind words, our cruelty, and ultimately our total rejection of God's grace that decides our fate. here is given to every soul, even up to the last moment of our lives, the choice of accepting God or rejecting Him. Souls in hell are those that reject Him, reject His love, reject His grace, and most importantly reject His mercy even to the very end! Even after they have seen Him and they hurl themselves into this abyss because it is worse for them to stand before Him, than to be in darkness!
"As we continued further down toward the center of hell, the noise and total confusion continued in its escalation the deeper we went, and the tortures inflicted on the souls became more and more gruesome. Quickly we descended until we reached what appeared to be the bottom of a huge pit which contained an immense cell. Its doors were as thick as they were tall and opened at the command of St. Michael. As the doors opened, a sickening smoke spewed out from its center enveloping all that was around us.
"My angel raised his hand and as we approached the cell, it was filled with a brilliant light. Te walls were oozing and quivering with what appeared to be snakes and vermin of unearthly size, and they slithered and scurried away. In the center of this dungeon was a huge throne which was made entirely of gold and silver coins, bouillon and blocks, and although filthy and tarnished, it was heaped in piles forming a basic throne shape, and it was huge. At its base were the souls of humans, some with skin, some only bones, all in varying degrees of decay and covered with worms.
"When the bones were completely bare and all flesh had decayed or had been eaten by the worms, they immediately became covered in skin and it all started again, burning, rotting, digesting. These souls were completely immobile, and each moaned and quivered beneath the weight of this massive throne. From behind me, I felt a terrifying presence. A presence so completely evil and so full of hatred that I wanted to run, but terrified, I was frozen in place.
"I felt it approach me, with its hot breath flowing over the back of my neck. So complete was its hatred of me, that I felt this hatred weigh me down and cover me. I instinctively knew who this was and knew that he was permanent in his state. Not only could he not alter his destiny, he would never desire it, ever. His damnation was set forever and cemented in complete and total opposition to God. He hated completely all that God is, and therefore hated beyond words all God has created. In hell, he spews all of his hatred onto each and every one of those souls imprisoned in hell.
"These souls are constantly bombarded with it, and they are perpetually reminded that they could have had Heaven but instead chose hell. They remember the beauty of God, and now forever will be separated from it. They could have had Love, peace and complete happiness, and instead have lost it for all eternity. There are a vast number of levels of hell and each soul is sentenced according to its crimes. These tortures continue unabated and repeat over and over, carried out by millions upon millions of willing demons."
Alan paused in the telling of his story. "I'm sorry," he said to our correspondent, who is writing a book about such experiences, and granted us permission to use this excerpt. "It was so overwhelming to witness and it can't really be fully explained."
He leaned forward and adjusted himself in the bed. (Then continued:)
"Nothing can describe [the evil presence] because he resembles nothing of this earth. What I can't express enough is his hatred, and his hatred right then was directed completely at me. My soul was filled with an overwhelming, oppressive despair as I heard him mocking me, not out loud, but I could hear his filthy words within my mind. He proceeded to tell me why I belonged to him and every single sin that I had ever done. In my mind I tried to reassure myself with what the angels had told me earlier, when another accusation was hurled at me with increasing rapidity and force. His cunning and vulgar voice accused me and filled me with such despair that I begged my guides to take me away which only escalated his mocking of me, one after another, after another.
"Michael raised his hand, which stopped Satan's attack on me, and in a thunderous, majestic voice Michael shouted, 'Enough! All has been forgiven him!' A bright light emanated from my guides, growing brighter and brighter as I saw Satan cowering to get away from it. He started howling, hurling blasphemies at us with such a thunderous roar that the walls of this dungeon should have been shattered. Quickly and forcefully we flew out of that pit, back through the path that we had come through and back through the gates of that awful place.
"The gates slammed shut and the huge bolts were rammed forcefully into their former position, enclosing its inhabitants forever. We flew upward, rocketing at an ever-increasing speed and I could hear Satan's blasphemous screams slowly diminishing. Then, instantly we were out of that horrible place and back into the Light, far away from the heat and the stench of hell. I was so thankful to be out of that cesspool of filth, that I wept.
"Clinging to my guardian angel, I thanked him for taking me out of there. We came to a stop and Michael turned to me and said, 'You have only seen a small glimpse of the horrors of hell. Do not forget it!' With that my guides disappeared and I was hurled again, this time on my own through a very tight tunnel, growing smaller and smaller until it felt as though I was completely crushed. I opened my eyes and was lying on my back with a tube in my mouth. Doctors and nurses surrounded me, telling me that they were going to remove my breathing tube.
"My head spun and my chest was in horrific pain as I attempted to breathe. I was confused and frightened and was unable to move my arms or legs. In this confusion, I thought since I couldn't move, maybe I had been shoved into my hole in the wall of hell. I became frantic and tried with everything I had to wiggle out of what was holding my arms and legs. Then I heard my doctor's voice explaining again to relax, that the surgery was over and that they were going to remove my breathing tube. I realized then that I was on earth, in the hospital and I was never so happy to be here and not in hell.
"Nothing about my life is the same," he allegedly said in conclusion, "and it changed the minute my breathing tube was out. I asked for a priest to come as soon as possible. I was frantic and told the nurses that they had to hurry and get me a priest. No priest was available until the next day and that night I didn't sleep a wink. I hadn't been to Confession since grade school and hadn't been to Mass since I was in high school.
"When the priest arrived the next day, I asked him to hear my Confession. I fumbled with the words, not knowing how to begin, but he patiently talked me through it. It took three hours but I confessed it all. After I got out of the hospital, and after I recovered and got my strength back, I sat my wife down and I apologized to her for everything. Then I went to each one of my children, all grown, some with children of their own, and I apologized to them because I had completely failed them. At first they thought I had gone mad, but eventually they did forgive. We are very close now, and I've tried every day to show them how much I love them. It took Regina a long time to forgive, because I was so rotten to her all of our married life that she didn't trust I had really changed. Eventually she did forgive and we've been together fifty years now. Yes, she took this old sinner back and God be praised for that!"
He raised his left hand and twirled his wedding band around with his thumb.
"I've spent every moment since then making it up to her and to Jesus. I pray all the time, all day long and I go every single day to Mass and Communion. Regina and I are better now than we've ever been, and now we're dealing with this cancer. She's having a difficult time accepting this, so much more than me. I know this disease has run its course and I know where I'm headed -- I know I'm dying. I long for the day but can't really share that with Regina, but I tell you I can't wait!"
He smiled over at the nurse.
"It's quite a tale isn't it? I can't tell you how many times I've told it, and every single time I can't stop the tears, because I almost didn't make it. I almost ended up in that horrible place, and rightly so. But Jesus, in one act of unbelievable and undeserved Mercy changed it all. I know that no matter what, people need to realize that nothing is unforgivable because Jesus is bigger than any sin. But He can't forgive if we are unwilling to ask for forgiveness."
Alan reached over and squeezed her hand. "All we have to do is to love. If you love, He smiles…it's so simple. Difficult some days but simple."
Said our correspondent: "Alan continued to decline as the bleeding from his bladder continued. Never once did I ever hear him complain. One April evening, I arrived at work and immediately went in to check on him. He was drenched in sweat and a sickly grey pale. We wiped him down and changed his linens and his gown. When we were finished, he looked up at me and whispered, 'It's almost over. I feel Jesus coming.' I leaned over and hugged him, heartbroken that my friend was dying. Alan smiled up at me and said, 'Remember…it's very simple.' Alan died peacefully at three a.m., surrounded by his wife and children."

If any one says that the dead are visible to us in general, we reject it, even if it is the pope implying it

Here is a continuation of the last dialogue with James. The type in orange is his new contribution to which I have responded in white.
1, The Balamand Declaration because of its errors was NOT accepted by Cardinal Ratzinger and CDF nor was there any overall approval for Balamand by Pope Benedict XVI.
I understand. This is what was said at that time.The Declaration is now available on the website of the Vatican's International Theological Commission. It is approved also on the websites of the USCCB and the Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales. Many dialogue documents are posted without being regarded as being officially approved.
However defacto this is the irrational theology being taught at the Catholic  universities and parishes.It is clear that they are no no more saying that every one needs to be a formal member of the Church. Since they assume there are known exceptions in the present times.
This was the error which comes from the Letter of the Holy Office and the excommunication of Fr.Leonard Feeney. 1
There are no known cases of non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire or in in invincible ignroance.So how can they be exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation. 'Elementary , my dear Watson, Elementary!' If something or someone is not there how can it be an exception or a substitute ?
2. there is no error in CCC #1257 but traditional teaching.
CCC contradicts itself.To say that all do not need the baptism of water for salvation is heresy.It is negating the defined dogma on salvation and the Nicene Creed. This is a mortal sin of faith.
3, You totally distort Magisterial doctrine (allowing for the salvation of non-Catholics and the unbaptized) by claiming any such saved have to be personally known and physically visible”!
If the baptism of desire etc is an exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation for you, then it would have to be known to you, in personal cases.
If you do not know  anyone  saved with the baptism of desire etc then say that all in 2014 need the baptism of water for salvation and you do not know of any exceptions this year.
Consequently, since such can not be known, there can be no exceptions to “nullus salus extra Ecclesiam:.
Here you are saying there are no known exceptions but elsewhere you infer there are exceptions.
I would agree with you that there can be no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(However below you suggest that there are exceptions to all needing to be formal members of the Church). If you want to use the word “exception” with regard to needing to be formal members of the Church to be saved, O.K., but such are not exceptions to the need to be within the Church as joined and linked or related to it!
 We cannot see anyone 'joined or linked and related to it'.This is something theoretical and has nothing to do with all needing to be formal members of the Church.
Yet CCC 1258-1260 says there are substitutes for the baptism of water. Baptism of desire and baptism by blood (of martyrs) have always been acknowledged in the Church. CCC has nothing new there! They have the same effect as baptism of water in the name of the Trinity.
No one before  the pontificate of Pope Pius XII  inferred that:-
1.These cases are visible to us in real life.
2. They are explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus
There are some persons in Rome for example in 2014 who do not need the baptism of water? Who are they? Where are the substitutes on earth? All need baptism but baptism of desire and baptism of blood bring sanctifying grace to the soul of those who do not have access to a minister of baptism (priest, deacon, or lay person).
Lionel: Bring sanctifying grace to the soul? We cannot administer the baptism of desire and blood . It is not physical. The baptism of water only is physical. It can be seen  and repeated.
 We cannot read the heart of a person of good will who qualifies for baptism of desire or baptism of blood, so he or she cannot be identified. Here one is dealing with the invisible working of the Holy Spirit.
Yes. So why do you insist that these cases are exceptions or substitutes in real life, to all needing the baptism of water ?. You cannot meet any one saved with the baptism of blood or desire. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit.It cannot also be followed with the baptism of water.
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
With reference to the Necessity of Baptism ,God ' is not bound by his sacraments.'?. St. Augustine and St. Thomas and other Fathers of the Church said exactly that!
They have said instead that God is  bound to the Sacraments.
Whom do you know this year who is not bound to the Sacraments and will be saved ?
'is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament', why is this mentioned ? Do we know any such case on earth? Can we judge? Does this imply that these cases are visible in the flesh?. The mysterious ways of God in dealing with souls regarding the salvation of non-Catholics and non-Christians are invisible to us, and so we cannot identify the persons in question.
The Church says all non Catholics need faith and baptism for salvation (AG 7, CCC 1257,CCC 846 etc).Those who die without it are on the way to Hell according to the Catholic Church and you James, do not know a single exception in 2014.
So the Balamand Declaration says that there is no more an ecumenism of return.(N.30).Why which New revelation says there are known exceptions and where are these exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus, so that there is now known salvation among Protestants,d Orthodox Christians etc., The ITC theological papers say there is salvation outside the Church and so all do not need to convert into the Church. This is being taught at the Catholic universities and seminaries here in Rome.

Your interpretation is absurd. No one living in this world can be identified by the Catholic Church as definitively saved or lost.
My interpretation is rational and yours is not . I am affirming the traditional teaching along with Vatican Council II. I am also saying that there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
You instead are saying that the baptism of desire etc are substitutes for the baptism of water.This is irrational since you do not know any substitute i.e someone who is in Heaven this year without the baptism of water.
The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance had nothing to do with the tradtional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney. The magisterium made a mistake.
Agreed. No one.So how can the Catechism 1257 etc infer that there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Why was Fr.Leonard Feeney criticized on this point?Where are the exceptions to his literal interpretation of the dogma on salvation? as noted previously, as being mysteriously within the Church, they are not “exceptions” extra ecclesiam! Feeney was in serious error in thinking one had to be a visible member of the Catholic Church to be saved. The Church never officially taught that rigorism which excluded non-Catholics from salvation!
 There are numerous saints who taught for centuries that one had to be a formal member ( with faith and baptism) of the Catholic Church for salvation.
It's the liberals who have brought in this irrationality of there being exceptions, explicit substitutes for the baptism of water.Those who do not hold this new irrational and heretical doctrine are called being rigorist.In the words of Pope Francis, not affirming the irrationality, is 'triumphalism'.
So now they say there is no more an ecumenism of return.They say the Holy Office excommunicated Fr.Leonard Feeney since he would not admit he could see the dead now in Heaven who were visible exceptions to all needing to be a formal member of the Catholic Church.!?
If any one says that the dead are visible to us in general, we reject it, even if it is the  pope implying it.
The Church has no insight into whether any living individual has sufficiently corresponded with the graces necessary for salvation or will die in the state of grace.
4. All the authentic Church documents are saying is that God gives grace to all to be saved (whether through the Sacraments or in an extraordinary way), but the salvation of anyone cannot be known with certainty while they are on pilgrimage in this world. It is only after death that the Church can officially declare one among the blessed.
If they were saying just this it would be fine.
But you know that Fr.Leonard Feeney is reported excommunicated for denying that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 referenced in the Catechism makes this point.It can be read in the text.No one has refuted it from the Magisterium.
The Catechism says there are exceptions. The baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are exceptions.(CCC 1258.60 etc)
The ITC says on its website that Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance etc are exceptions to the literal interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney.It says that the old ecclesiology is not more there...The cause for your confusion is your fixation on the word “exception” in taking issue with the Church’s official teaching.
If there is no more an ecumenism of return then it means not every one needs  Catholic Faith with the baptism of water for salvation.It implies there are exceptions.
The CCC never uses the word “exception” regarding non-Catholics who can be saved. It does not do so because baptism of desire and
Baptism are equivalent to baptism of water, having the same effect.

So they are replacements for the baptism of water in real life for you? If you make the distinction between implicit and explicit, de jure ( in principle) and defacto it would be helpful.
Defacto there are replacements for the baptism of water?

So they do not constitute “exceptions”! They are saved because they have cooperated with graces received through Christ and His Catholic Church which are ONE.
Agreed in theory. However de facto where are these cases sen on earth, to be relevant to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney ?
5. Actually, the Catholic Church does not sanction “exceptions” to “No salvation outside the Church”.
It implies it .Since for centuries the traditional teaching was that every one needed to be a formal member of the Church for salvation.No, some theologians taught that, but the great majority discarded that opinion in a deeper study of the question.
According to the website of the International Theological Commission,ITC, Vatican the theologians assumed that Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) was an exception to the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
So the theologians assumed there were known exceptions /substitutes saved without the baptism of water.
Then for the ITC, the baptism of desire etc is an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard  Feeney.You can read this on their website . In other words there are known cases who are exceptions. They would have to be known and  visible to be exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.
 I am surprised that you do not see that your and Fr. Feeney’s opinion has been decisevly rejected by the Magisterium of the Church.
 In the  excommuncation of Fr.Leonard Feeney there was a factual mistake made by the magisterium. It is a fact of life that we cannot see the dead. So how can the dead saved with the baptism of desire etc be visible exceptions to the traditional teaching of Fr.Leonard Feeney ? I do not like saying this.The correction can be made we can go forward.
It is clear , for even a non Catholic or a young student, that we cannot see any baptism of desire   case. So it  could not be considered relevant to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.This was an oversight  of the magisterium.
Instead of the error being corrected in the Catechism of the Catholic Church it is carried over in 1257. Also CCC  846 refers to  outside the Church there is no salvation as an aphorism. lt  is not an aphorism it is a dogma of the Church. Pope Pius XII called it an 'infallible teaching' (Letter of the Holy Office 1949).For political reasons , perhaps,the text of the dogma was not reproduced in the Catechism.Or it was just an oversight when they assumed that there were known exceptions to the dogma on salvation and so the dogma was no more relevant..
You have sadly set your face like flint against the clear doctrine of the Magisterium as reaffirmed in the CCD and other magisterial documents.
I am affirming the doctrine of the magisteriuim in CCC 1257, 846,845. I am also affirming Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7). These references support 'Feeneyism'. While NA 2, LG 16, LG 8 etc and parts of CCC 1257 are not explicit exceptions to Feeneyism. If this common irrationality is avoided then these magisterial documents support Feeneyism.
Since for centuries the traditional teaching was that every one needed to be a formal member of the Church for salvation.
It was Cardinal Cushing and the Jesuits who brought up the issue of 'exceptions'.Now the Catechism 1258-1260 says there are exceptions, substitutes, for the baptism of water.
How can these cases be exceptions( substututes) to every one needing to be a formal member of the Catholic Church for salvation? These cases do not exist in our reality on earth. So how can they be exceptions for every one needing to formally enter the Churchin Rome, for example, in 2014?
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the popes and saints had always meant formal entry into the Church.
If you say no, fine , then I would ask you to show me the exception, the person saved without formal entry into the Church.
It carefully explains that the word “exception” refers to those who are saved but have not had formal membership in the Church as Catholics.
It usually infers it but does not directly use the word exception.
They do not represent “exceptions” to “No salvation Outside the Church” ! The truth is that any non-Catholic who is saved is saved because of their imperfect communion with the Catholic Church (being linked or joined to the Church by faith and baptism and cooperating with graces given through the Church).
This is accepted.If you just leave at this- it is acceptable.However when they assume that these cases are visible ( they would have to be visible to be exceptions) and imply that they are exceptions to all needing to be formal members of the Curch, this becomes irrational and non traditional.
Similarly, the unbaptized who are also called to salvation, are related to the Church, can correspond with the graces that come to them unknowingly through the Church, and can be saved. The point to be stressed is that the cooperation by non-Catholics and non-Christians with the graces that come to them through the Catholic Church means they are saved by the Catholic Church. In a mysterious sense such persons of good will are invisibly within the Church.
Yes. Fine, as long as you do not imply that these cases are exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church for salvation.Since you do not know any one who formally does not need to enter the Catholic Church.
Also theologically the baptism of water and being saved in invincible ignorance can be followed by the baptism of water in the manner known only to God.
So implicit for us baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance is acceptable.One can affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( according to Fr.Leonard Feeney9 along with hypothtical, implicit for us baptism of desire etc.
The traditional axiom thus holds: there is no Salvation Outside the Church. “Outside the Church” was never understood as confined to those with formal membership as Catholics –
Yes it was understood to mean formal entry. No pope or Council has mentioned any exceptions or names the baptism of desire etc as an exception.This has come from Cardinal Cushing.
since “All men are called to Catholic Unity”
Yes in potential.In potential salvation is open to all. In reality they need to convert into the Church for salvation.(Dominus Iesus 20, CCC 1257,846, Vatican Council II ( Ad Gentes 7) etc)
and “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience- those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
They are known only to God and so are not visible exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church.
You are not implying that these cases refer to those who do not need the baptism of water for salvation in 2014?
-Lionel Andrades