A Catholic school boy and a Buddhist meet Archbishop Marchetto and Professor Roberto de Mattei at their next meeting 1 ( scenario)
Archbishop Marchetto and Prof.Roberto de Mattei when they next meet to discuss Vatican Council II are accompanied by a non Catholic, a Buddhist.There is also a Catholic school boy who has no religious formation in theology.
The school boy begins to speak to all:
1) We human beings in general cannot see the dead now saved in Heaven.
2) Is it true that the both of you learned gentlemen can physically see the dead in Heaven ?
The Buddhist rises up and confirms:
1) We humans in general cannot see the dead as spirits or in the flesh.
Archbishop Marchetto and Professor Mattei smile and say clearly that Catholics cannot see the deceased who are now in Heaven and neither can people in general see the dead.
So what is the point of these statements the two learned Catholics would want to know ?
Then the school boy would rise again and ask something his uncle mentioned but he could not understand well: "How can the deceased saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance be an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
"If these cases refer to the dead then how can they be an exception to all needing to convert into the Church in 2014, with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water? We cannot see these cases and all still need to convert is the Catholic teaching?"
Then the Buddhist, now more confused, bows and asks Archbishop Marchetto and Professor Mattei, discussing Vatican Council II:
"Why do you Catholics say those saved with ' a ray of the Truth'(Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II) are an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
"You do not know anyone in 2014 saved as such so how can it be an exception?"
Neither can Archbishop Marchetto or Professo Roberto de Mattei name someone in 2014 who is saved with ' a ray of the Truth'.
Then the school boy asks : "How is Vatican Council II a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the texts of Vatican Council II ? "
The Buddhist has a supporting question: "Is not Vatican Council II in perfect agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney?"
" Young man Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition and Tradition must be adapted to Vatican Council II",says Archbishop Marchetto.
"You mean it has to be believed that the dead -saved are visible on earth and so they are an exception to all needing to convert into the Catholic Church?" the young boy asks.
"Where is the citation in Vatican Council II which contradicts extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition?", he wants to know.
Archbishop Marchetto cites Nostra Aetate 2, which refers to being saved with 'a ray of the Truth', for him.
The Archbishop says,"This is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the need for all to be saved with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith. Here is an example of someone who can be saved outside the Church." Tradition is reversed.
The school boy would now explain what is not theology for him but a fact of life common even to the Buddhist.
"NA 2 could refer to a case of a person now in Heaven who is visible to us or who is not visible to us.
"If he is visible on earth then he is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and you are correct.
"If he is not visible on earth then he is not an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and then I am correct."
"So you both believe these persons dead are visible on earth?"
End of the discussion.
The school boy and the Buddhist are still sure they cannot see the dead.
Father Lanzetta and Professor de Mattei are part of a group of scholars which includes Archbishop Marchetto and that for more than two years, each with their own theological and historical identity, these have been examining in a constructive manner an in-depth study of the Second Vatican Council, with no mutual demonization.1
De Mattei answers dissident leader of Franciscans of the Immaculate-Rorate Caeili