Wednesday, June 18, 2014

Monsgr. Gherardini interprets NA 2, UR 3 ( imperfect communion with the Church) etc as referring to VISIBLE cases.Obviously Vatican Council II will be non traditional and heretical

Nostra Aetate 2 is opposed to Tradition when it is inferred that ' a ray of the Truth' is VISIBLE and not INVISIBLE for us.
How can what is not seen on earth be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus?.Similarly with 'subsistit it' (LG 8), invincible ignorance(LG 16) etc.They are all INVISIBLE for us.These cases are possibilities for us only.They are hypothetical only for us. They are known only to God.
Gherardini and Mattei whom I respect, do not make this distinction.Neither do the Vatican Curia or the Franciscans of the Immaculate ...
and there is not one document of V2 that can be said to be binding for it chose to operate on a pastoral level; and, as pointed out by Msgr Brunero Gherardini, it never defined what Pastoral meant.
Monsgr. Gherardini interprets NA 2, UR 3 ( imperfect communion with the Church) etc as referring to VISIBLE cases.Then obviously Vatican Council II will be non traditional and heretical.The Vatican is using the heretical interpretation in its pastoral approach. The fault is not with Vatican Council II per se.ABN:
There are no canons or decrees of V2 and at least one Prelate has admitted publicly that the documents were political compromises.
The Jewish Left supports Vatican Council II with the false inference. They interpret all salvation mentioned or alluded to, in the Council (NA 2 etc) as being VISIBLE for us.This was politically accepted AFTER Vatican Council II(1965).This is how the media interpreted it.The same error of a VISIBLE baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, was made in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case.The baptism of desire is INVISIBLE for us. It has nothing to do with the traditional interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
The content of D.H. can not be reconciled with the content of Doctrine prior to V2 as the great Thomist Msgr pointed-out.
DH makes the distinction between a Catholic confessional state and a state with a secular Constitution.When we make this distinction when reading Dignitatis Humanae, the Council is traditional.The good Monsignor whom I have heard speak and whom I like, does not make these distinctions. The error is innocent.

You can post links to yur blog arguing differently but ABS will take the word of men like Mattei and Msgrs like Gherardhini.
They are correct when they say that Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition.They are not aware however that the cause for the break was the use of an irrational inference; a false premise.They assumed that the dead-saved are living exceptions to Tradition. Omit this premise and Vatican Council II becomes as traditional as Mattei and Gherardini.
O, and if you think you will get traction claiming that Bishop Schneider is, effectively, a material heretic, you are insane (ABS does not mean that in a bad way)
I appreciate what Bishop Schneider says about praying on the knees and avoiding communion in the hand.
However the good bishop says Vatican Council II is ' ambigous'. This indicates that there are exceptions in Vatican Council II, for him, to the dogma on salvation. If there are exceptions he infers that there is salvation outside the visible limits of the Church, the dead are visible.
He is not aware of the INVISIBLE-VISIBLE distinction.The error is innocent and commonplace.

Most Catholics are unaware of the false premise : including those at the Vatican

Lionel. Famously faithful Catholics disagree about the content of the Documents of V2

Most of them are unaware of the false premise.
The false premise is a factual error. It is an objective error. It is not theology or a religious belief. Even a non Catholic can observe it.
So once the premise is discarded the Council changes 'overnight'.It does not depend on my opinion or that of any one else.Since it is obvious to a school boy that we cannot see the dead on earth.

which alone is evidence of the confusing nature of the Documents and several of those men who think the documents of V2 are confusing have brought their dispute to the Church (as per the New Testament) but the Church refuses to settle the dispute dogmatically but simply refers the disputants back to the very documents which are the source of the confusion.

The 'magisterium' is making the same error.
The International Theological Commission has made this FACTUAL ERROR in two theological papers of the ITC. In Christianity and the World Religions (1997) and The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized, they have assumed that salvation in Heaven is VISIBLE for us.This was approved by Pope Benedict XVI.

I have documented this on my blog.These errors have also been made in public by Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine D Noia, Cardinal Kaspar and others.
Said otherwise, ABS thinks the number of men you will convince with your claim that V2 is Tradition is fewer than the number of female babies being born who will be named after, Totie Fields.

Once you are aware of the premise the Council has changed.One does not have to be a theologian to realize this.
-Lionel Andrades

What ideology? It is common knowledge that we cannot see the dead on earth. Is this ideology? Is this theology? Is this my personal view?

O, ABS gets it now. You are an ideologue whose interpretive key to V2 is whether or not it cleaves to EENS rather than cleaves from EENS.

What ideology?
It is common knowledge that we cannot see the dead on earth.
Is this ideology?
Is this theology?
Is this my personal view?
It is independent of me.
The moment you say there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus you are saying that you can see the dead.
Only if you could see the dead could there be exceptions.

If you use an irrational premise you will get an irrational conclusion.
If you say that ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) is visible to you Vatican Council II will emerge non traditional.
If you say that you can see someone saved with 'seeds of the Word' (AG 11) this would mean there is salvation outside the Church. This would be a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Where is the ideology in this ?
If you use a false premise with any Church document it will emerge as a break with the past.

Well, just because no other man in the world thinks that doesn't mean your ideology is not normative :)

I have no ideology or theology to put forward.
I am just pointing out to a irrationality used in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Most people including traditionalists are saying that there is VISIBLE to them salvation outside the Church. I' m only pointing it out.
-Lionel Andrades

Iraqi Christians flee ISIS-controlled territory

By on Jun 17, 2014          

Iraqi Christians attend a Christmas Eve mass at St. Joseph Chaldean Church in BaghdadWhy are they fleeing? The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria wants to create an Islamic state ruled by Sharia, and as every mainstream media reporter in the United States knows, Sharia is entirely benign, humane, and compatible with principles of human rights. So why are they fleeing? Have Iraqi Christians been reading the writings of greasy Islamophobes? Or could it be that they see what Sharia is with their own eyes, and that the mainstream narrative is wrong?
“Iraqi Christians flee homes amid militant push,” Associated Press, June 16, 2014:
Over the past decade, Iraqi Christians have fled repeatedly to this ancient mountainside village, seeking refuge from violence, then returning home when the danger eased. Now they are doing it again as Islamic militants rampage across northern Iraq, but this time few say they ever want to go back to their homes.
The flight is a new blow to Iraq’s dwindling Christian community, which is almost as old as the religion itself but which has already been devastated since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. During the past 11 years, at least half of the country’s Christian population has fled the country, according to some estimates, to escape frequent attacks by Sunni Muslim militants targeting them and their churches.
Now many of those who held out and remained may be giving up completely after fighters belonging to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant swept over the city of Mosul and a broad swath of the country the past week.
“I’m not going back,” said Lina, who fled Mosul with her family as the militants swept in and came to Alqosh, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) to the north.
“Each day we went to bed in fear,” the 57-year-old woman said, sitting in a house for displaced people. “In our own houses we knew no rest.” Like other Christians who fled here, she spoke on condition she be identified only by her first name for fear for her safety.
In leaving, the Christians are emptying out communities that date back to the first centuries of the religion, including Chaldean, Assyrian and Armenian churches. The past week, some 160 Christian families – mostly from Mosul – have fled to Alqosh, mayor Sabri Boutani told The Associated Press, consulting first on the number with his wife by speaking in Chaldean, the ancient language spoken by many residents.
Alqosh, dating back at least to the 1st century BC, is a jumble of pastel-painted homes nestled at the base of a high craggy hill among rolling plains of wheat fields. The village’s population of 6,000 is about half Christian and half ethnic Kurds. Located just outside the autonomous Kurdish zone of northern Iraq, Kurdish fighters known as peshmerga have moved into the town to protect it.
Many Christians are deciding that the comparatively liberal and prosperous Kurdish regions are their safest bet.
“Every Christian prefers to stay in Kurdistan,” said Abu Zeid, an engineer. He too said he wouldn’t be going back to Mosul.
“It’s a shame because Mosul is the most important city in Iraq for Christians,” he added. Mosul is said to be the site of the burial of Jonah, the prophet who tradition says was swallowed by a whale.
Iraq was estimated to have more than 1 million Christians before the 2003 invasion and topping of Saddam Hussein. Now church officials estimate only 450,000 remain within Iraq borders. Militants have targeted Christians in repeated waves in Baghdad and the north. The Chaldean Catholic cardinal was kidnapped in 2008 by extremists and killed. Churches around the country have been bombed repeatedly.
The exodus from Mosul – a Sunni-majority city that during the American presence in Iraq was an al-Qaida stronghold – has been even more dramatic. From a pre-2003 population of around 130,000 Christians, there were only about 10,000 left before the Islamic State fighters overran the city a week ago.
Abu Zeid estimated that now only 2,000 Christians remain in the city.
“They see no future there,” said George Demacopoulos, the director of the Orthodox Christian Studies Center at the Jesuit-run Fordham University in New York.
“There is no short-term solution,” he said in a phone interview. “I think the only prescription for a long-term solution is a kind of political stabilization of the region that is enabled without military force.”
Christians who have not left Iraq completely often flee their homes to other parts of Iraq when the danger is highest in hopes of returning later.
Boutani, the mayor, said this was the sixth time in 11 years that Christians from other areas have flocked to Alqosh for refuge. He himself fled here from Baghdad in 2009 after a church bombing in the capital.
This is the third time that Adnan, a 60-year-old Mosul shoe shop owner, has sought shelter in Alqosh. He came in 2008 after a priest in Mosul was killed, then again in 2010 after rumors spread of an imminent attack on Christians. Each time, he and his family returned after Iraqi security officials guaranteed Christians’ safety.
“They said, we will protect you,” he recalled. “But now – where’s the government?”
The Vatican for years has voiced concern about the flight of Christians from the Middle East, driven out by war, poverty and discrimination.
During his recent trip to Jordan, Pope Francis met with Iraqi and Syrian Christians and denounced the wars, weapons and conflicts that have forced them from their homes.
“All of us want peace!” Francis told a gathering of refugees near the River Jordan. “I ask myself: who is selling arms to these people to make war?”
In Alqosh, the newcomers and the residents united in prayer at Sunday Mass in the Chaldean Church of the Virgin Mary of the Harvest, held by Friar Gabriel Tooma.
On the church floor was spread a mosaic made of beans, lentils, wheat and other produce from the area, assembled to commemorate the upcoming harvest. Before the service, volunteers hurried to finish the images of Jesus and Mary, and were filling out the details of Pope Francis’ face, sketched out with white beans.
“People are afraid of what’s coming next,” Tooma said. “I fear there will be a day when people will say: ‘There were once Christians in Iraq.’”
As he walked with his wife and daughter in the 7th century St Hormoz monastery, built into the hill overlooking Alqosh, Abu Zeid said he went back to Mosul on Friday to see if his house was still standing.
Some of the militants in control of the city tried to show that Christians were welcome.
Gunmen stopped him and asked if he was a Christian, Abu Zeid said. When he nodded back, a gunman told him: “Welcome to your home.”
The Chaldean church in Mosul was looted, he said, and he saw gunmen drag the accused thieves to the church and order them to return stolen property.
He and other displaced Christians highly doubt the shows of goodwill. Still, some said they have no choice but to eventually return.
“I’m 60 years old,” said Adnan, the shoe salesman. “It would be hard to start over again.”

Pastors Making Bridges between Churches and Islam?

By Albert James Dager

ISIS jihadists besiege Iraq’s largest oil refinery

ISIS jihadists besiege Iraq’s largest oil refinery

By on Jun 18, 2014 t
Beiji oil refinery“Some 275 armed American forces are being positioned in and around Iraq to help secure U.S. assets” — this absolutely ridiculous, as 275 troops aren’t going to be able to do anything against either ISIS or the Iranians. The Sunni-Shi’ite jihad is going to play out in Iraq. American intervention to prop up the Maliki regime would only play into the hands of the “Death to America” Iranians. The best thing the U.S. can do at this point is stay far out of the conflict and adopt a policy of containment to try to keep the conflict from spreading and prevent jihadis from coming to the West. But the Obama Administration will almost certainly do something foolish and harmful to American interests instead.
“ISIS Militants Besiege Iraq’s Largest Oil Refinery,” Associated Press, June 18, 2014 (thanks to Kenneth):
BAGHDAD — Islamist militants laid siege to Iraq’s largest oil refinery Wednesday, threatening a facility key to the country’s domestic supplies as part of their ongoing lightning offensive, a top security official said.
The attack comes as militants have seized wide swaths of territory in Iraq — and as the specter of the sectarian warfare that nearly tore the country apart and the doubts that followed the 2003 U.S.-led invasion now haunt those trying decide how to respond.
The official said fighters of the al Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) began their attack on the Beiji refinery, some 155 miles north of Baghdad late Tuesday night. The attack continued into Wednesday morning, with fighters targeting it with mortar shells. A small fire started on the facility’s periphery, he said.
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to journalists.
The Beiji refinery accounts for a little more than a quarter of the country’s entire refining capacity — all of which goes toward domestic consumption for things like gasoline, cooking oil and fuel for power stations.
Any lengthy outage at Beiji risks long lines at the gas pump and electricity shortages, adding to the chaos already facing Iraq.
The Sunni militants of the Islamic State have vowed to march to Baghdad and the Shiite holy cities of Karbala and Najaf in the worst threat to Iraq’s stability since U.S. troops left. The three cities are home to some of the most revered Shiite shrines. The Islamic State also has tried to capture Samarra north of Baghdad, home to another major Shiite shrine.
Some 275 armed American forces are being positioned in and around Iraq to help secure U.S. assets as President Barack Obama also considers an array of options for combating the Islamic militants, including airstrikes or a contingent of special forces.
The White House has continued to emphasize that any military engagement remains contingent on the government in Baghdad enacting political reforms and ending sectarian tensions, which had been on the rise even before the Islamic State’s incursion last week, with thousands killed since late last year.

This teaching of the Church on baptism of desire refers to cases which are INVISIBLE or VISIBLE for you ?

I have tried hard to explain to you that if someone is saved through Christ’s Church, then it cannot possibly be described as an exception, since they are, by desire, inside Christ’s Church although due to circumstances beyond their control, unable to have sacramental baptism.
If someone is saved through Christ's Church then it cannot be descibed as as exception....
When Catholics use the word exception it is always in reference to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
They say 'every one does not need the baptism of water since there are exceptions.There are those saved through Christ's Church with the baptism of desire.This is an exception.'
They will say "Oh no ! Every one does not need to enter the Church in 2014 with  sacramental baptism since there are those saved in invincible ignorance. These are exceptions." So there are exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation, for them.
For someone to be an exception, they are not aware, he has to be present, he has to be seen, he must be VISIBLE. Otherwise how can there be an exception?
This is why I have to keep asking the Editor of Catholic Truth, Scotland  to please define her terms.
When she uses the phrase 'baptism of desire' or 'being saved in invincible ignorance' is she referring to someone VISIBLE in 2014 or someone INVISIBLE.
She will not clarify her terms.
You are denying this teaching of the Church on baptism of desire, so I think you ought to give up now
This teaching of the Church on baptism of desire refers to cases which are  INVISIBLE or VISIBLE for you ?
Am I denying invisible for us baptism of desire or visible in the flesh cases of persons now saved in Heaven with the baptism of desire?
We both could be referring to the baptism of desire and be meaning different things.
For her it could be the catechumen who sought the baptism of water and died before receiving it and he is VISIBLE on earth in 2014.
For me it is the catechumen who sought the baptism of water and died before receiving it and is INVISIBLE on earth. He is visible only to God.So he is not an exception to the dogma on salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

Cristina Siccardi ,Paolo Pasqualucci use the irrational inference in the interpretation of Vatican Council II

Cristina Siccardi has written a review of Il Concilio parallelo by Paolo Pasqualucci.This book is also being sold by the Society of St.Pius X( SSPX).There is a review on Roberto Mattei's Correspondenza Romana. All three of them,Mattei, Siccardi and Pasqualucci have been making the same error of interpreting Vatican Council II with a false inference.
In Christina Siccardi's last book she has quoted Fr. Jean M.Gleize who assumes that NA 2, UR 3 etc refer to salvation VISIBLE on earth.These cases are for him explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition. Siccardi repeated the error.
Pasqualucci also infers that there are VISIBLE exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
copertina Concilio parallelo.indd 
I have asked Prof. Roberto Mattei to answer TWO QUESTIONS which will bring out this error for him and others, but he will not respond.Neither will Siccardi respond to e-mail queries.
The error is innocent and has also been made by the SSPX priests and those of  the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
If all salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is INVISIBLE for us ( and this is rational) then the Council is not a break with the past as is being interpreted presently by Corrispondenza Romano, Rorate Caeili and other traditionalists.
The Franciscans of the Immaculate can affirm Vatican Council II ( without the inference of the VISIBLE dead-saved who are alleged living exceptions to Tradition) along with  the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church on salvation and Christian communities.
It is Fr.Fidenzio Volpi and Sr. Fernanda Barbiero, overseeing the Franciscans of the Immaculate, who must be asked to affirm Vatican Council II without the false inference.
However before this is possible, the traditionalists must admit their error in public.Then they can ask Fr.Volpi and Sr.Barbiero to correct their interpretation of Vatican Council II , which is presently irrational.
-Lionel Andrades


Cristina Siccardi and Prof. Roberto Mattei are making the same error


Make an announcement : Say the Franciscans of the Immaculate affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus in accord with Vatican Council II.Ask the CDF to do the same
-Lionel Andrades

Hating on Tradition

'Subsistit it'(LG 8) is not a VISIBLE exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Vatican Council II (LG 8) is not a known exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition.There is no known salvation  outside the Church.
"The Council has, therefore, admitted that the Church of Christ is something bigger than the Roman Catholic Church."
Annie in Ad Gentes 7 the Council says all need faith and baptism for salvation. This is also expressed in Lumen Gentium 14.
The Council is affirming extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It is in accord with Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.
So we should also affirm a Vatican Council II in accord with extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
If LG 8 is interpreted as saying there is salvation outside the Church, it is important to note that these cases are INVISIBLE for us. They are not VISIBLE. So they cannot be exceptions to Ad Gentes 7. There cannot be known salvation outside the Church.
Objectively there is no such case as Viterbo has observed.
There is nothing in the Council which contradicts AG 7 when you are aware of the INVISIBLE-VISIBLE distinction.

 The 'is' which they turned into 'subsists' fuelled the idea of 'full communion' and 'and partial communion' which cannot be found in the Magisterium prior to VII. I would take a guess that this 'full' and 'partial' innovation is what is at the root of Bergoglio's 'peripheries' business - the sense being that everything is 'Church' - either undiltued or slightly diluted, full or partial. Doesn't really explain his dislike of sphere's and his admiration of polyhedron's however.
Either way 'subsistit it' is not a VISIBLE exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is the MISSING LINK we have to be aware of it when interpreting Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston and some other magisterial documents (Redemptoris Mission, Mystici Corporis etc).
-Lionel Andrades