Monday, April 7, 2014

Testimony of New Ager "I was in Hell"


http://didijeremie.com/Fabienne_Guerrero_E1.html

http://www.medjugorjeusa.org/testimonyoffabienne.htm



Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J and Pope Benedict XVI made a factual error : Analysis

'10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22)...'-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions
Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis, cardinals and archbishops have not objected to this passage from Christianity and the World Religions by the International Theological Commission 1997.
There is a factual mistake here.
'the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16...')
 
Example Lumen Gentium 16 ? LG 16 is a possibility of salvation only but here it is implied that it is an exception to Tradition and so eccclesiology is no more ecclesiocentrism.(1)


 Cardinal Luiz Ladaria the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and former President of the ITC has made a factual error here. It was approved by Pope Benedict XVI.The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has not acknowledged that there is an error here.
 
Cardinal Luiz Ladaria led the Vatican team in the SSPX-Vatican doctrinal talks. The SSPX's Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, who led the SSPX side, has made the same error in a book published by the SSPX in Italy.
 
1.
Apply the Three Common Sense Points:
1. There is no way that we can know of a particular person saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire because of its very nature. It is known only to God.
2. There is no text in Vatican Council II or the Catechism which claims we know of any such case.
3. So Vatican Council II and the Catechism do not contradict the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus-The Three Common Sense Points
The baptism of desire is a gift of God. We cannot claim that someone has received the Baptism of Desire this month. It cannot be administered.


2.
The two questions are:-

1) Do we personally know the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc,can we see them, are they physically visible to us in 2013 ? Answer: NO

2) Since we do not know any of these cases, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ? Answer: THERE ARE NONE. 

 
3.
CUSHINGISM OR FEENEYISM 
 VATICAN COUNCIL II
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6)...-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.
FEENEYISM (rational): The orange text does not contradict the text in yellow since the cases referred to are not known to us, personally .We do not know and cannot know these cases. So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
CUSHINGISM( irrational): The orange text contradicts the text in yellow .It is assumed that these cases are known to us in the present times. We can physically see the dead who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846
FEENEYISM (rational): The orange text does not contradict the text in yellow since the cases referred to are not known to us, personally .We do not know and cannot know these cases. So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
CUSHINGISM( irrational): The orange text contradicts the text in yellow .It is assumed that these cases are known to us in the present times. We can see the dead who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney. -

 
4.

An Example of the False Premise and the Conclusion.

Seeds of the Word (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II)

With the False Premise:
We can see non Catholics who have received salvation in 2014 with 'seeds of the Word'.
Conclusion: Vatican Council II contradicts extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Vatican Council II contradicts itself. AG 7 - 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation contradicts AG 11- being saved with 'seeds of the Word'.
Without the False Premise.
Being saved with seeds of the Word is a possibility.
A possibility is not a known reality in a specific case in the present times, for us. A possibility is not an exception.
Seeds of the Word is not an exception.
Since it is not visible and known in a specific case in 2014 it is not relevant or an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Conclusion: Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

5.
COLUMN A or COLUMN B
All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e being saved with the seeds of the Word (AG 11), invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) can be interpreted with COLUMN A or COLUMN B
COLUMN A
Implicit or us.
hypothetical for us.
invisible.
dejure (in principle).
subjective.
COLUMN B
explicit for us.
known in reality.
visible in the flesh.
defacto (in fact).
objective.
If COLUMN B is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition.There are known exceptions. The dead-saved are visible. This is an irrational and common interpretation of Vatican Council II.
If COLUMN A is chosen in the interpretation then Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition.The Catholic Church's teaching on other religions and Christians communities and churches is the same before and after Vatican Council II.
 
6.

IN REAL LIFE
We cannot say any one specifically whom we meet is 'an exception' .While Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.So every non Catholic whom we meet needs faith and baptism and we do not know a single exception, who will be saved without faith and baptism.
When we meet a non Catholic we know he is oriented to Hell unless he converts into the Church with faith and baptism.
We do not know who is saved in invincible ignorance or who knows about Jesus and the Church and did not enter and so is damned (Lumen Gentium 14). This is known only to God.The Church says all need faith and baptism (AG 7).
Those Catholics who say there are 'exceptions' imply, in the Nicene Creed , " I believe in three known baptisms for the forgiveness of sin, water, blood and desire', instead of, 'I believe in one (known) baptism for the forgiveness of sin (water)."All this irrationality emerges with 'explicit exceptions'.
Pope John XXIII initiated a traditional Vatican Council II when there are no 'explicit exceptions' used in the interpretation.
Pope Paul VI concluded Vatican Council II which is pro-Fr.Leonard Feeney when there are no 'explicit exceptions' used in the interpretation.
Without 'explicit exceptions' Pope John Paul II 's Vatican Council II is in agreement with Dominus Iesus 20, the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846, Ecclesia di Eucarestia, Ecclesia in Asia etc. It does not contradict the Syllabus of Errors or the Catechism of Pope Pius X.
7.
CCC1257
 
Those who have received salvation 'without the Sacraments' (CCC 1257-God is not limited to the Sacraments) could have died and have returned to life after death to be baptized with water, as was the experience of St. Francis Xavier. They were not sent to Hell.
Also a non Catholic in invincible ignorance could have had a preacher sent to him by God, to be taught the faith and to be baptized with water.This was taught by St.Thomas Aquinas.
So all who are in Heaven are there with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.The ordinary means of salvation is faith and baptism. It is not being saved in invincible ignorance, seeds of the Word etc.
However either way, with the baptism of water or 'without the Sacrament', these cases are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted by Fr.Leonard Feeney.They are known only to God.
CCC 1257 does not contradict itself when it says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water.
CCC 1257 also does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since these cases are not explict.

Feeneyism is the official teaching of the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions to Feeneyism.Feeneyism is an affirmation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus,whose text does not mention any exceptions.
-Lionel Andrades

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/10/dean-of-theology-at-st-anselm-says.html#links