Saturday, March 22, 2014

Mons.Matteo Zuppi to offer Traditional Latin Mass in Rome without the ideology of extra ecclesiam nulla salus

On the Fourth Sunday in Lent (Laetare Sunday), March 30, 2014 at 11am, a Solemn Pontifical Mass will be celebrated at Santissima Trinità dei Pellegrini, the Parish of the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter (FSSP) in Rome, by his Excellency, the Most Reverend Matteo Zuppi, Titular Bishop of Villanova and Auxiliary Bishop for Diocese of Rome (in charge of the City Center).
We ask all our readers in or near the City on March 30 to please go to this special Mass.-Rorate Caeili
Most Rev.Matteo Zuppi denies the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I have spoken to him. He is an active member of the liberal Sant Egideo community.Their founder  Andrea Riccardi rejects the Catholic Church's teaching on Mission and is close to the liberal rabbis.
 
Mons.Zuppi like the FSSP priests will be offering the Traditional Latin Mass without the ideology of extra ecclesiam nulla salus; without the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church, which Zuppi believes have been done away with.
 
He interprets Vatican Council II with the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error as do not Jewish Left who monitor the Rome Vicariate where Mons. Zuppi has his office.
 
Fr.Joseph Kramer, FSSP, the Rector at the Santissima Trinità dei Pellegrini is unable  in public to support the traditional teaching on salvation. He follows instructions and protects his position.
 
Similarly Mons. Ignacio Barreiro ex FSSP, also is allowed to offer the Traditional Latin Mass in Rome since he does not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus even though he admits there are no known exceptions to the dogma.
 
How can Mons. Zuppi and the FSSP priests offer Holy Mass while denying the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II (AG 7-all need faith and baptism for salvation), the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846- all need to enter the Church as through a door), the Nicene Creed ( I believe in one known baptism and not three), the Athanasius Creed( outside the Church there is no salvation) etc.?
 
Vatican Council II without the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error is in agreement with the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Who will affirm this in public at the TLM  on March 30?
-Lionel Andrades

The baptism of water is needed for salvation along with Catholic Faith. Every adult who is in Heaven is there with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.

 
MHFM: The notion that an unbaptized catechumen can be saved without water baptism is definitely false.Why? Because Jesus Christ taught that no one is saved without water baptism (John 3:5).The Catholic Church has solemnly defined that truth as a dogma.In addition, one cannot be inside the Catholic Church without water baptism, and there is absolutely no salvation outside the Catholic Church.We have a salvation book, numerous videos and articles that cover these issues in detail.That’s why you should not be receiving instruction from heretical ‘traditionalist’ priests.You should pray the full Rosary each day, look at the material on our website, and follow these steps to convert:
 
Lionel:
The baptism of water is needed for salvation along with Catholic Faith. Every adult who is in Heaven is there with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.
So if a person dies with the baptism of desire, God would have sent a preacher to him to instruct him in the Faith as St. Thomas Aquians taught and then to baptise him. Or the person after dieing could be sent back to earth to be baptized with water as St.Francis Xavier and the saints experienced.So there is no one in Heaven without the baptism of water.
The baptism of desire/implicit baptism is not a dogma of the Church and we do not know any such case. So it is not relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It is a possibility known only to God but it is not an exception to the dogma.The Church Councils knew about it but did not include it in the text of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, as an exception.
So if there is someone who dies this year without the baptism of water as it is often believed possible, we would not know who this person is. We would not know if he died and returned to earth to receive the baptism of water, we would not know if his genuine desire and charity was followed with the baptism of water.This will always be a hypothetical case.
We do know that Catholic Faith which includes the baptism of water is needed for salvation for all adults.
 
The Most Holy Family Monastery(MHFM), sedevacantists assume that the baptism of desire is visible for us in 2014 and so could be a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is the same error made by the liberals and traditionalists, whom Peter and Michael Dimond criticize.
-Lionel Andrades

Examples of the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error in Vatican Council II

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.-Gaudium et Specs 22. Quoted above in Catholic Answers Magazinehttp://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

Gaudium et Specs 22 : Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error
All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way.
It is possible that a person with good will, will be saved in an unseen way.This would be known only to God.This case would be invisible for us.
This case is not visible for us. So it would not be an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So when it assumed on the Catholic Answer Magazine above quoted that this is an exception to the traditional teaching which says all non Catholics are going to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church it means the invisible is being considered to be visible. This is the Cushing- Jesuit Factual Error.
It is a fact that we do not know any such case who is an exception. Neither does the passage above claim that it is a known exception. Yet dissenters will imply that this refers to an explicit case.
we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.-Gaudium et Specs 22.

Yes as a possibility but no as a defacto, reality.
Yes hypothetically but not in fact, not in reality, not personally known.
The Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error confuses the distinction between a possibility with being known in reality.
When this distinction is not made Vatican Council comes across as 'ambiguous'.
  Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II :
This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. And hence missionary activity today as always retains its power and necessity.
By means of this activity, the Mystical Body of Christ unceasingly gathers and directs its forces toward its own growth (cf. Eph. 4:11-16). The members of the Church are impelled to carry on such missionary activity by reason of the love with which they love God and by which they desire to share with all men the spiritual goods of both its life and the life to come.
Finally, by means of this missionary activity, God is fully glorified, provided that men fully and consciously accept His work of salvation, which He has accomplished in Christ. In this way and by this means, the plan of God is fulfilled - that plan to which Christ conformed with loving obedience for the glory of the Father who sent Him,(18) that the whole human race might form one people of God and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit which, being the expression of brotherly harmony, corresponds with the inmost wishes of all men. And so at last, there will be realized the plan of our Creator who formed man to His own image and likeness, when all who share one human nature, regenerated in Christ through the Holy Spirit and beholding the glory of God, will be able to say with one accord: "Our Father."-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

Ad Gentes 7: Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error
'made known by the Church's preaching'
Every one needs to enter the Church with 'faith and baptism' (AG 7) and if there is any one saved in invincible ignorance it would be known only to God.
We do not know who is saved in invincible ignorance or who was condemned because he knew about Jesus and the Church through the Church's preaching and did not enter or persevere.
So why was this mentioned? Being 'made known by the Church's preaching' is known only to God.
With the Richard Cushing Factual Error it is assumed that these cases are explicit and known to us in the present times. So there is a new doctrine formed. It is every one does not have to enter the Church as before but only those who know about the Church as it was made known by the Church's preaching.

Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."-AG 7

who though aware ?
This is known only to God, so why mention it? Every one needs to enter the Church with 'faith and baptism' as it is stated in AG 7. If a person is in invincible ignorance or was 'aware', would be known only to God. The ordinary means of salvation is 'faith and baptism' (AG 7). If some one is saved with the baptism of desire it would not be known to us.So it is not an exception to all needing to enter the Catholic Church in 2014 for salvation.
With the Cushing-Jesuit Facual Error it is said that only those persons need to enter the Catholic Church who are aware of the Church.

'Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6)'

We do not know a single case saved inculpably ignorant of the Gospel so why mention it ? How is it relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ? How does it change the traditional teaching on other religions ? It is possible that a non Catholic could be saved in invincible ignorance but this person would not be known to us and so it is not an exception to the traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Being saved in invincible ignorance is considered visible and known to us in personal cases. This is the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error.
'provided that men fully and consciously'
 Do we know who is saved by fully and consciously accepting Jesus' work of salvation. Is it relevant to Ad Gentes 7 which states 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation? 
Yes we accept this in faith but  it refers to something implicit and invisible for us. When it is implied that it is explicit, visible and personally known in particular cases it is the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error.
 
Unitatis Redintigratio 3 : Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error
For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect.
If there is a non Catholic saved in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church it would not be known to us in 2014. With the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error it is assumed that these cases are explicit for us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to St.Robert Bellarmine and the saints. 
Lumen Gentium 8: Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error

This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.-LG 8,Vatican Council II

'although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure'.-LG 8
If a non Catholic is saved with elements of sanctification and of truth outside the visible structure of the Catholic Church it would not be known to us on earth. So it would not be an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. With the Cushing- Jesuit Factual Error it is assumed that these cases are explicit for us.

Ad Gentes 11- seeds of the Word : Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error

'let them gladly and reverently lay bare the seeds of the Word which lie hidden among their fellows'-AG 11
It is often implied that there could be non Catholics saved with 'the seeds of the Word' and so they do not have to convert into the Catholic Church. Since these cases are allegedly known to us they are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is the use of the Cushing-Jesuit  Factual Error.

Nostra Aetate 2 : Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.-NA 2, Vatican Council II 

'often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men'
Yes there are good and holy things in other religions and if a non Catholic is saved in these religions  it  would be invisible for us. If a non Catholic is saved with  a 'ray of that Truth' it would not be known to us. To assume that these cases are explicit for us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is to make the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error. It is a fact that we cannot see the dead  saved . Objectively we cannot know these cases. To imply that one can objectively see the deceased is irrational. It is using a false  premise to create a new doctrine and an irrational theology in the Catholic Church.
Lionel Andrades


Always in the interpretation of Vatican Council II we have to be aware of the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error      http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/03/always-in-interpretation-of-vatican.html

Usually the problem in the Catholic Church could be traced to the CJFE http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/03/usually-problem-in-catholic-church.html#links

Usually the problem in the Catholic Church could be traced to the CJFE.

When the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) rejects Vatican Council II it is because they are not aware of the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error(CJFE).
 
When the Fischer More College rejects Vatican Council II it is because they are not aware of the CJFE.
 
When Bishop Michel Olson at Fort Worth criticizes the Fischer More College it is because he interprets Vatican  Council II with the CJFE.
 
When the liberals criticize the SSPX it is because they interpret Vatican Council II with the CJFE and expect the SSPX to accept the non traditional doctrine.

When Cardinal Gerhard Muller and Archbishop Augustine Di Noia in interviews with the National Catholic Register said there were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus they were not aware of the CJFE.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Michael Davis misinterpreted Vatican Council II because of the CJFE.Cardinal  Joseph Ratzinger did not correct them.

For Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Robert Sungenis, Michael Voris, Patrick Archbald and Louis Verrecchio Vatican Council II is 'ambigous' because they are not aware of the CJFE.

The Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate want the community members to accept Vatican Council II with the CJFE. They reject Vatican Council II unaware of the CJFE.

In the Profession of Faith Catholic religious recite the Nicene Creed unaware of the CJFE. So when they say ' I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin' they do not mean only one known baptism, the baptism of water, but three or more known baptisms ( desire, blood, seeds of the Word, imperfect communion with the Church etc).

Romano Amerio, Dietrich von Hildebrand, Roberto de Mattei, Bruno Gherardini the late Fr.William Most  were not aware of the irrational premise being used in the interpretation of Vatican council II. They did not know about the CJFC.

If Ecclesia Dei, Vatican identifies the CJFC the reconciliation of the SSPX is possible.

Usually the problem in the Catholic Church could be traced to the CJFE.
-Lionel Andrades

Vatican Council II is in perfect agreement with the SSPX traditional interpretation on other religions and Christian communities when the Cushing-Jesuit Error is avoided

Praying_the_rosaryMaureen Clarke
You are giving SSPX sympathisers a platform for their dissent against Vat11…
 
Lionel:
Maureen I have been in contact with the SSPX priests in Rome. They accept Vatican Council II as a reality. Like the liberals though, they also interpret the Council with the Cushing-Jesuit Factual Error.Once this error is identified they will discover that Vatican Council II is traditional on the issue of other religions and ecumenism, since the Council does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It will then be the liberals who will not be able to cite rationally, any text from Vatican Council, to show that the Council is a break with the past.
The Council is in perfect agreement with the SSPX traditional interpretation on other religions and Christian communities when the Cushing-Jesuit Error is avoided.
-Lionel Andrades