Thursday, February 13, 2014

FRANCISCAN FRIARS OF THE IMMACULATE STAND OFF : ALL SIDES ARE USING THE FALSE PREMISE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II

There are two ways of looking at the issue of the Franciscans of the Immaculate(FI).
1. From the point of view of Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner the FI as a Catholic religious community must accept Vatican Council II and the Novus Ordo Mass.This makes sense. However it also implies there must be a rejection of traditional doctrine and theology and a change in the Nicene Creed.
2. From the point of view of Prof. Roberto dei Mattei and the FI members (over 200 priests who have formally  appealed to Ecclesia Dei) the FI as a Catholic religious community must not reject the traditional doctrine and theology. So they cannot accept Vatican Council II and offer the Novus Ordo Mass as a break with Tradition.

Fr.Fidenzio Volpi wants the FI to sign an oath and the FI members, most of them, will not sign it since it is against their conscience.
 
THE SPECIFIC PROBLEM
 
Fr.Fidenzio Volpi is interpreting Vatican Council II using an irrational premise.So Vatican Council II emerges non traditional. He may not be aware of this premise.
Roberto dei Mattei is interpreting Vatican Council II using the same irrational premise. He may not be aware of this premise too.So Vatican Council II emerges non traditional.
The FI are also using the same irrational premise and so the Council is a break with Tradition.
 
I, Lionel Andrades, do not use this premise and so Vatican Council II is traditional. There is no ambiguity. There is no hermeneutic of rupture. There is only a hermeneutic of continuity with the past.

So the difference between Fr.Fidenzio Volpi , Roberto Mattei and me is the use and non use of the premise. Since they are not aware of the use of the premise both sides, Fr.Volpi and the FI , must believe they are correct and are doing the right thing.Fr.Volpi believes he is faithful to the teachings of the Church, the Magisterium. Roberto dei Matteo and the FI must believe the same, since they are not advocating anything new.

The root of the problem is the premise.
( I could repeat this 100 times)

The problem is not Vatican Council II since I am interpreting it in perfect harmony with Tradition.No one has been able to contradict me all these years. No one has been able to correct me. While an Archbishop, the Dean of Theology at a Pontifical University in Rome, an American Catholic apologist and many Catholic priests have supported me.

The premise they are all using is something foreign to the Catholic Church. It was brought into the Church in the 1940's in Boston. Since then, no pope, cardinal or Bishop has discussed it nor mentioned it. Perhaps if some Catholics were aware of it they were put down by others.

Here is the irrationality being used by all sides in the FI stand off.

Premise:

1. All salvation in Heaven is physically visible to us on earth.
2. All salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is physically visible to us on earth. We personally know these cases in 2014.
3.The dead-saved in Heaven are known, explicit for us.They are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
4.Those saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) are visible to us on earth.So the dogma on exclusive salvation has changed.Protestants are saved in 2014. All do not need to enter the Catholic Church any more.
5.A Protestant can be saved with 'seeds of the Word' (AG 11 etc). This is not implicit but explicit for us.
6.Nostra Aetate (NA 2) has changed the Catholic Church's teachings.Jews, Muslims and others are saved explicitly. There are explicit exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in 2014.
7.Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy since being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) is a known exception to his traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation.

These are some aspects of how the false premise is used. I have been calling it the dead-saved and visible theory, or the dead man walking theory or the dead man walking and visible theory. I have been joking about seeing the dead downtown, meeting ghosts and shaking their hands on the streets.
 
AGREE ON THE OBVIOUS
 
So if Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, Roberto Matteo and the FI members agree  that all salvation in Heaven in 2014 is implicit for us and not explicit for us., we have the solution to the FI problem.
Implicit 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3), invisible-for-us  'seeds of the Word' (AG 11) and known only to God being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) are not known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is obvious. We cannot see the dead. So if they can all agree on the obvious we have the beginning of the solution to this innocent misunderstanding in the Church. Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities if there are no known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Roberto dei Mattei and the FI could ask Fr.Fidenzio Volpi to affirm a Vatican Council II which is rational; without the dead-saved and visible theory.

They must all be aware of the premise when interpreting Vatican Council II.They must  avoid it.Then Vatican Council II is not a break with Tradition.The FI can sign an oath accepting Vatican Council II, without the dead man walking theory.

The FI have always been offering the Tridentine Rite Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass. I have attended the Novus Ordo Mass numerous times, offered by FI priests.Ecclesiology and theology does not depend on the liturgy.
 
Since ecclesiology (understanding of Church) does not depend on the liturgy , we can look differently  at the two ways of interpreting the Church, which I mentioned above.
 
1. From the point of view of Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner the FI as a Catholic religious community must accept Vatican Council II and the Novus Ordo Mass.This makes sense. However this would not imply  a rejection of traditional doctrine and theology and a change in the Nicene Creed.
2. From the point of view of Prof. Roberto dei Mattei and the FI members (over 200 priests who have formally  appealed to Ecclesia Dei) the FI as a Catholic religious community will not be rejecting traditional doctrine and theology. So they can accept Vatican Council II and offer the Novus Ordo Mass without it being a break with Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades

Non traditional position on salvation held by Roberto Mattei and Correspondenza Romano

The weekly news agency of Roberto Mattei has an artilce Teologia e salvezza ( Theology and Salvation) (1) which does not state that the Church teaches that all need to be visible members of the Catholic church for salvation, all need visible- for-us  'faith and baptism'( AG 7,Vatican Council II) for salvation.
Concilio Vaticano II-The traditionalist new agency Correspondenza Romano cannot make this traditional statement since Roberto Mattei assumes there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For him the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are physically visible exceptions to the traditional teaching on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
So for him Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition, the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus of Errors since all salvation mentioned in the Council is explicit for him. This is the common factual error. It is with this irrationality he would interpret the Council.
The article uses the vague, liberal line and says The Church is the sacrament of salvation(Dominus Iesus) meaning all those who are saved are saved through the Church, indirectly or directly i.e through the baptism of desire and the baptism of water.(CCC 846).It is if those who are saved indirectly, in their religions through Jesus and the Church are known exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014.
The baptism of desire is a possibility but it is not an exception to the dogma. It is not relevant to the dogma or the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.
Similarly Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscans of the Immaculate holds the same position on Vatican Council II, the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and salvation as does  Prof. Roberto Matteo.
So he wants the Franciscans of the Immaculate to accept Vatican Council II in which it is assumed that all do not need 'faith and baptism' for salvation in 2014 since there are personally  known exceptions.
He implies that the dead are visible on earth for them to be relevant to the traditional teaching on salvation which is ignored by Correspondenza Romano.
The article which denies the traditional teaching on salvation according to the thrice defined dogma and Ad Gentes 7, Vatican  Council II had been published in the traditional magazine Radici Cristiane.
However Radici Cristiane  did publish an article by the excellent Italian apologist Corrado Gnerre which held the traditional teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus and salvation.
Prof. Roberto Matteo is a professor at a Legionaries of Christ university which interprets Vatican Council II as a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This has also been his  unfortunate position.-Lionel Andrades


1.
La Chiesa come sacramento di salvezza


Tutta l’azione della Chiesa, la sua missione essenziale e ineluttabile, è quella di essere sacramento di salvezza. Per questo la Chiesa è “missione”, cioè, esercizio dell’ “invio” da parte di Cristo e dello Spirito affinché si compia il disegno amoroso del Padre che «vuole che tutti gli uomini siano salvati e arrivino alla conoscenza della verità» (1 Tm 2,4). Ogni e qualsiasi azione della Chiesa deve puntare, direttamente o indirettamente, alla salvezza e ciò che non ha niente a che fare con questa finalità, smette semplicemente di essere azione della Chiesa.

È evidente che l’oggetto primordiale della salvezza mira alle realtà soprannaturali: la grazia e la gloria, la conversione e la santità. Ed è chiaro anche che queste realtà si riferiscono e si realizzano in ogni persona. Ma ogni cristiano è membro di un corpo, il cui capo è Cristo e che esiste una reciproca causalità nel bene e nel male fra tutti coloro che sono di Cristo. Nessun cristiano può sentirsi estraneo alla salvezza dei suoi fratelli e perciò ogni vita cristiana ha una dimensione apostolica che è un altro modo di dire “missionaria”.
http://www.corrispondenzaromana.it/radici-cristiane/fede-morale-teologia/1023/teologia-e-salvezza/

Petition needed calling attention to public lie

On Feb.4, 2014 the traditional news agency of the historian Roberto de Mattei Corrispondenza Romana sent to Secretary of State Pietro Parolin a petition with 8,000 signatures which demands the resignation of the Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscans of the Immaculate , Fr Fidenzio Volpi.


Would  Corrispondenza Romana send a petition with 8000 signatures to the Vatican Secretary of State saying that Fr.Fidenzio Volpi wants the Franciscans of the
Immaculate to accept Vatican Council II with a public lie. It is illegal to lie.
According to Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner of the FFI there are known, visible cases on earth who are saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16)  and the baptism of desire and these cases are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This is a falsehood. There are no such visible cases.
This is a falsehood that the Vatican Curia wants to impose on the FFI through their Apostolic Commissioner.
On the contrary:
1. Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
2. It does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities and churches. 
It is based on the lie of the dead now saved and existing in Heaven being physically visible exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition, that the
Franciscans of the Immaculate have to accept Vatican Council II , the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Nicene Creed.
-Lionel Andrades

Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate appeal to the Apostolic Signatura for a clarification

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/franciscan-sisters-of-immaculate-appeal.html

No known exceptions in Nostra Aetate to extra ecclesiam nulla salus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/10/no-known-exceptions-in-nostra-aetate-to.html#links

Bolt on the road to Damascus needed- FFI
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/bolt-on-road-to-damascus-needed-ffi.html
 
 
Openness at St.Peter's Square in prayers for Syria does not include small church 100 metres away
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/openness-at-stpeters-square-in-prayers.html

Future priests have to formally accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council (the dead-saved are physically visible version)... or be kicked out - Lifesites on FFI confusion

Confusion as faithful Catholic order is brutally disciplined while dissidents left to fester


ffi_community(lifesitenews.com) Among the most faithful of all of the new Catholic religious orders, especially in regard to their pro-life commitment, was an order known as the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate (FFI). They were made a pontifical institute of religious life by His Holiness John Paul II in January 1, 1998. The order has thrived and been considered stellar in its evangelization efforts. However, recent actions by the Vatican against the order have generated a firestorm of controversy and confusion about what priority the Church is now giving to the fidelity of religious orders to all Church teachings. Many pro-life Catholic fans of the order are reeling from what has been done to the order in just the past few months.
Most Americans are familiar with the many religious orders of sisters who have sided with President Obama against the Bishops of the United States. Some will remember that under Pope Benedict an investigation into such dissident nuns was undertaken with a good start but eventually little result and hardly any discipline meted out whatsoever. Catholics have been pleading for decades for Vatican intervention to halt the decline of many of these orders into New Age, lesbian, pro-abortion and otherwise out-of-control, anti-Catholic behaviour that has had serious negative effects on the Church and a catastrophic vocations drop-off.
On the other hand, there have been relatively unknown faithful orders growing in the Church, with seminaries and convents bursting at the seams with new applicants, having to turn many away because of overcrowding. These orders have been attracting the large numbers of young men and women with callings who have been repelled by the infidelities and chaos in most of the older, mainstream orders.
The FFI has been considered one of the very best of these astonishingly thriving new orders. The FFI were very traditional to be sure, even encouraging the Latin Mass and all that, but they were known to be teachers of the faith on the Culture of Life par excellence – unwavering in their adherence to the truths of life and family.
However, an internal dispute in the order around the use of the traditional Latin Mass has ended up in one of the most severe disciplines against any order that many can ever recall seeing in their lifetimes. While religious orders (for example, the Jesuits) riddled with major, in-your-face dissent, sexual abuse, rampant homosexuality and more for decades remain still comparatively untouched by Church authorities, the FFI have been ruthlessly dismantled in a period of just several months.
The controversy began in July when Pope Francis named Capuchin Fr. Fidenzio Volpi as Commissioner of the order, displacing the founder at least temporarily and also simultaneously forbidding the friars from celebrating the Latin Mass (known as the Extraordinary Form).
From there things got worse quickly.
As the Associated Press reported earlier this month, Fr. Volpi issued “a series of sanctions in the name of the pope that have stunned observers for their seeming severity.” Reports AP, Fr. Volpi:
- Sent their founder, the Rev. Stefano Maria Manelli, to live in a religious home while he set about turning the order around.
- He closed the friars’ seminary and sent its students to other religious universities in Rome.
- He suspended the activities of the friars’ lay movement.
- He suspended ordinations of new priests for a year
- and required future priests to formally accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council and its new liturgy or be kicked out.
- And he decreed that current priests must commit themselves in writing to following the existing mission of the order.
AP’s Nicole Winfield notes “The sanctions seem harsh when compared to recent actions taken by the Vatican against other much larger religious orders or groups found to have doctrinal or other problems, such as the Holy See’s crackdown on social justice-minded American nuns or the Vatican’s reform efforts of the disgraced Legion of Christ. In both cases, a papal envoy was named to rewrite constitutions or statutes and oversee reforms, but Volpi’s actions with the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate would appear to go much further.”
Traditional Catholics have sounded the alarm. A petition by Italy’s famed Catholic Professor Roberto de Mattei has over 5000 signatures. In America, the traditional blog Rorate Caeli has been following the case closely with the most up-to-date information in English.
However, it is not only ‘traditionalist’ Catholics that have sounded the alarm. Last week, the EWTN-owned National Catholic Register, published a plea to Pope Francis for help. Written by Pat Archbold known for his popular Catholic blog Creative Minority Report, the appeal to Pope Francis Archbold details the above discipline on the order.
Archbold reminds Pope Francis of the Holy Father’s own words about being lenient with religious orders which make mistakes, and urging them to move forward nevertheless.
Archbold adds: “Fr. Volpi himself has stated, in response to criticism, that the reason for such draconian and disproportionate measures is that ‘the founder and ex- MinisterGeneral, Father Stefano Maria Manelli, in January 2012, had already evaded constructive dialogue with the religious who had complained of a crypto-lefebvrian and definitely traditionalist drift.’”
Says Archbold:
Crypto-lefebrvrianism? A traditionalist drift?
Dear Holy Father, is faithful traditionalism within the Church now a crime? Is becoming more traditional a sign of deficiency within an order? Holy Father, that cannot be!
Perhaps the FFI did not manage this transition as well as one would hope, but certainly this response is disproportionate and wildly severe.
Holy Father, perhaps the FFI has made some mistakes, but why are they being prevented from moving forward?
I cannot believe that you know the full detail of what is occurring. Holy Father, if these draconian and disproportionate actions of Fr. Volpi are allowed to stand, I fear that one message will be loud and clear:
Faithful Catholic traditionalists no longer have a place in the Church.
Holy Father, I do not believe for one second that this is the message you intend to send.
Please Holy Father, please help.
In the meantime, religious orders in the world must be considering what their direction should be under the current circumstances. Under Pope Benedict, there was encouragement to give respectful attention to long-standing Church traditions, including the Extraordinary Form, and also to place emphasis on the Church’s authentic moral teachings, an emphasis lacking in much of the Church for the past several decades.
Now, especially in the thriving new orders, all growing almost entirely because of their consistent emphasis on joyful faithfulness to all Church teachings, there has to be anxiety as to how Rome sees them and what might be expected in the years ahead. Whether intentionally or not, the FFI have been made a very blunt example to all – but to what end is not exactly clear
 
http://www.corrispondenzaromana.it/international-news/confusion-as-faithful-catholic-order-is-brutally-disciplined-while-dissidents-left-to-fester/

Appeal for dismissal of 'political commissioner'

Francescani dell'Immacolata

We ask for the dismissal of Fr. Fidenzio Volpi from his duty as political commissioner of the Franciscans of the Immaculate. In the space of five months, Fr. Volpi has destroyed the Institute, provoking chaos and suffering within, scandal amongst the faithful, criticism from the press, uneasiness and perplexity in the ecclesiastical world. It is of little importance to know whether Fr. Volpi is the artifice or the executor of the plan of destruction...

 
He prohibited the celebration of the holy Mass and of the liturgy of the hours in the extraordinary form, provided for by the Motu proprio Summorum pontificum; he deposed the entire general government of the order, starting from its founder, Fr. Stefano Maria Manelli, who finds himself under house arrest without even knowing the reasons why; he has deprived of authority and transferred, one after the other, the most faithful collaborators of Fr. Manelli, all people of intellectual and moral standing, giving their duties to dissident Friars, often uncultured and deprived of experience in governing; he has threatened and punished the Friars who sent a petition to the Holy See and who refused to withdraw it; lastly, with a diktak dated 8th December 2013, he has closed the seminary, suspended the priestly and diaconal ordinations; struck the publications of the Casa Mariana with an interdict, prohibiting their distribution in churches and sanctuaries entrusted to the religious; he has extended his personal war to the tertiaries and laity who sustain the Institute, suspending all the activities of the MIM (Mission of the Immaculate Mediatrix) and of the TOFI (Third Order Franciscans of the Immaculate); he has threatened to have the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate commissioned and removed from them and from the Poor Clares of the Immaculate the spiritual assistance of the Friars; finally he wants to impose upon the Friars a “modernistic vow” of faithfulness to the Novus Ordo Missae and to the II Vatican Council...
 
Fr. Volpi accuses all those who criticise him of being against the Pope, but this tyrannical regime, apart from being unknown in the history of the Church, is it not in complete contrast to Pope Francis, who has recommended the avoidance of every kind of authoritarianism and the use of mercy and tenderness towards friends and enemies? An objective expert on Vatican affairs, Mark Tosatti, also took note of this, asking himself in La Stampa dated 4th December “But what have these poor religious done? Have they gambled, abused minors, led an immoral life? They have done none of these things.”
 
The truth is that Fr. Volpi, on his own initiative, or through a third party, wants to normalize the Franciscans of the Immaculate, making them similar to the other religious orders who are going astray. To achieve this, it is necessary to transform their spiritual and moral doctrine, destroy the internal discipline, put an end to the regaining of the traditional liturgy and for them to become open to the corruption of the world, just as he and his Capuchin order have done, with disastrous results.
Paul VI in his Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelica testificatio, of 29th June 1971, addressed to religious, reminds that one must obey their superiors, “with the exception of an order that is manifestly contrary to the laws of God or to the constitutions of the institute, or that would implicate a grave and certain evil – in which case, in fact, the obligation to obey does not exist.”
If Fr. Volpi will not be dismissed, there will inevitably be a conflict of conscience for those religious, male and female, who want to maintain the charism of the Franciscans of the Immaculate and faithfulness to the Tradition of the Church.

http://www.corrispondenzaromana.it/international-news/lepanto-foundation-we-ask-for-the-resignation-of-fr-volpi-commissioner-of-the-franciscans-of-the-immaculate/

Models of Faith - Michael Voris