Friday, November 14, 2014

Vatican Council II is traditional when salvation is understood to be physically invisible for us on earth: no problem for incardination among traditionalist priests

Fr.Nicholas Gruner should have no problem being incardinated in any diocese, because of not accepting Vatican Council II, if it becomes clear to all, that  salvation alluded to in the Council is not visible and known to us in 2014, to be exceptions to Tradition.Invisible cases in 2014 are possibilities but not explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
So if he is asked by a bishop if he accepts Vatican Council II, he could answer,"Yes. A Vatican Council II in which LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, LG 14, AG 11( seeds of the Word) etc are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition".One can accept implicit for us baptism of desire and also 'the rigorist' interpretation of the dogma.We can have it both ways.
 
"Vatican Council II is in agreement with the thrice defined dogma on salvation, the Syllabus of Errors and the Catechism of Pope Pius X",he could explain" and so supports the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ."
 
 Since outside the Church there is no known salvation in 2014, all political and social norms and legislation,must have Jesus Christ at the center, as he is known and taught by the Catholic Church, the only Church he founded. Vatican Council II is in line with Quas Primas and Mortalium Animos.The Council only becomes ambigous when it is assumed that salvation in Heaven, is physically visible to us on earth.
 
What about Religious Liberty? Non Catholics are free in a state with a secular Constitution to live their religion, equal to that of the Catholic Church.Error has rights in a secular state.This is the defacto situation in the world today.However in a Catholic Confessional State the Catholic Faith is the guide for all legislation.Error has no legal right.Non Catholics have a right to exist and to freely follow their religions,which are not paths to salvation, however the legislation and norms would be Catholic.
Even during the time of the Catholic Confessional states the pope allowed
non Catholics to live and follow their religion.
 image
I don't know how Fr.Gruner would respond but basically what I am saying is that Vatican Council II is traditional when salvation is understood to be invisible for us on earth.That we cannot physically see the dead is common knowledge.It is not a theological concept. So this should not be difficult for any bishop to accept.
 
 
 
 
 
The bishop could ask why do traditionalists interpret Vatican Council II as a break with Mortalium Animos and its concept of ecumenism.I would answer : it is because in Vatican Council II (Unitatis Redintigratio 3, the Decree on Ecumenism, etc) they see references to salvation among non Catholics, independent of the dogma.If they kept the dogma before them, they could read UR 3 differently . Now they assume hypothetical  cases are defacto known in the present times.They mistake possibilities  as being not just possibilities but explicit exceptions to the dogma.It is this irrationality which makes the Council a break with Tradition on ecumenism.
-Lionel Andrades

Fr.Nicholas Gruner can ask the pope and the Vatican Curia, in a fresh complaint, to also affirm Vatican Council II in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus as he does http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/11/frgruner-can-ask-pope-and-vatican-curia.html

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