Lionel, it is nonsense you’re sprouting. You don’t understand BOD at all when you say it is an exception to EENS or that the 1949 letter is wrong. It is based on the Council of Trent and on the 1917 Code of Canon Law when they treat catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own as baptised. This is also why it’s rubbish to hear you say Archbishop Lefebvre is wrong in talking to the catechumen if he dies without baptism through no fault of his own, he will be saved. Or do you contradict even the Council of Trent catechism?!
Lionel:
Quo Vadis Petre
Lionel, it is nonsense you’re sprouting. You don’t understand BOD at all when you say it is an exception to EENS
Lionel:
On the contrary I say it is not an exception.
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Lionel, it is nonsense you’re sprouting. You don’t understand BOD at all when you say it is an exception to EENS
Lionel:
On the contrary I say it is not an exception.
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Quo Vadis Petre:
or that the 1949 letter is wrong.
or that the 1949 letter is wrong.
Lionel:
It infers that the baptism of desire is an exception to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
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It infers that the baptism of desire is an exception to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
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Quo Vadis Petre:
It is based on the Council of Trent and on the 1917 Code of Canon Law when they treat catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own as baptised.
It is based on the Council of Trent and on the 1917 Code of Canon Law when they treat catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own as baptised.
Lionel:
Neither of the two state that these cases are visible and known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma on salvation.
The Council of Trent only mentions implicit desire. It does not state that it is visible to us or an exception to the dogma. This has been wrongly implied by the Letter.
A catechumen can be saved with the baptism of desire ( for me followed by the baptism of water) but it would not be known to us in personal cases to be exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014. An exception must exist in our reality. Defacto there are no known exceptions.
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Neither of the two state that these cases are visible and known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma on salvation.
The Council of Trent only mentions implicit desire. It does not state that it is visible to us or an exception to the dogma. This has been wrongly implied by the Letter.
A catechumen can be saved with the baptism of desire ( for me followed by the baptism of water) but it would not be known to us in personal cases to be exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014. An exception must exist in our reality. Defacto there are no known exceptions.
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Quo Vadis Petre:
This is also why it’s rubbish to hear you say Archbishop Lefebvre is wrong in talking to the catechumen if he dies without baptism through no fault of his own, he will be saved.
This is also why it’s rubbish to hear you say Archbishop Lefebvre is wrong in talking to the catechumen if he dies without baptism through no fault of his own, he will be saved.
Lionel:
The Catechuman can be saved. This is acceptable.
However to imply that this case is an exception to the dogma is irrational.
A theoretical case cannot be a defacto exception in 2014.
The Catechuman can be saved. This is acceptable.
However to imply that this case is an exception to the dogma is irrational.
A theoretical case cannot be a defacto exception in 2014.
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Quo Vadis Petre:
Or do you contradict even the Council of Trent catechism?!
Or do you contradict even the Council of Trent catechism?!
Lionel:
The Council of Trent has only cited implicit desire and it has not said that it is an exception.
The Council of Trent has only cited implicit desire and it has not said that it is an exception.
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-Lionel Andrades
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