If they were in full ecclesiastical communion then UR 3 would contradict AG 7. It does not do so for me

Steven Speray:

“Incorporated into Christ” and “in the Lord” means that baptized non-Catholics are members of the Church or else they wouldn’t be incorporated or in Christ.
Lionel:
It does not state that these persons who are incorporated in the Church, as possibilities, known to God only, are visible and known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This has to be wrongly inferred. The text does not state it.

SPERAY: The text says it plainly. Read it again....“Speaking of the members of these Communities, it declares: ‘All those justified by faith through Baptism are incorporated into Christ."

Lionel:

Incorporated into Christ in the sense that they believe in Chirst. Elsewhere in UR 3 it says the same. It mentions in UR 3 that they are not in full ecclesiastical communion ( even though incorporated into Christ).

If they were in full ecclesiastical communion then UR 3 would contradict AG 7. It does not do so for me.

So if some or many of them are incorporated into Christ and are saved too these cases are personally not known to us and cannot be known to us.So they are irrelevant to the teaching which says all need to be formal members of the Church. In the present times we do not know any exception of someone who is an exception because he is incorporated into Christ.

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Lionel:

 

This line does not say that these cases are known and visible to us in the present times.

It does not say that they are exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation.

Neither does it state that  there is a reference to people in general or just a category of persons.

So it is left to us to interpret it.

For me if there are Protestants incorporated into Christ and who are saved they are saved 1) with the  baptism of water and Catholic Faith and  in a way known to God and 2) they refer to cases known only to God so they are not relevant or an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

They would refer to some people and not Protestants in general since Catholic Faith is the ordinary means of salvation(AG 7 etc).

With or without the baptism of water, these cases are not known to us.So we cannot assume that hypothetical cases are visible in the flesh excveptions in 2014.

-Lionel Andrades