According to the dogma every one needs the baptism of water : do you know any exceptions according to the necessity of precept and means?

Lionel:

Steven, 

With reference to Feeneyism would you say that since the baptism of desire case is not visible to us in 2014 it is not an explicit exceptionsto all needing the baptism of water for salvation ?

Steven Speray: 

Water Baptism is the necessity of precept not a necessity of means. 

Lionel: 

Once again this is according to the controversial Letter of the Holy Office 1949. We do not know any one who will be saved in 2014 according to precept or means. This will be for God to judge. So there is no exception here to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014 and there are no exceptions of necessity of precept or means.

For the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 those who are saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are visible to us.This is irrational.So there theology is based on an irrationality.

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Steven:

The Church has repeatedly taught that Baptism is not absolutely needed in all circumstances. God can and has saved men without baptism. Baptism of Blood is one example and we have examples for them.

Lionel: 

The Church has always taught in the dogma that baptism of water and formal entry into the Church is absolutely needed at all time (Cantate Dominco, Council of Florence, Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7).

Those who are saved with the baptism of desire or blood can be saved with the baptism of water and God will provide the means.

To assume that the baptism of desire and blood refer to known cases who are saved without the baptism of water, is irrational.Since you do not know any such case.

How can what is unknown  be relevant or an exception to the traditional dogmatic teaching on salvation?

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 Lionel: 

Since we cannot see or meet any exception, to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014, the baptism of desire is irrelevant to the Feeneyite position, i.e defacto every one needs the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions?

 

Steven: 

Everybody needs baptism but not out of means such as in extraordinary cases.

Lionel:

Every body needs the baptism of water according to the dogma do you know someone in 2014 who is an exception? Precept or means?

-Lionel Andrades

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Steven Speray is unaware of Cushingism : uses an irrationality in the interpretation of Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/11/steven-speray-is-unaware-of-cushingism.html