Christopher:
Baptism of Water: Under the issue of the Baptism of Water you have argued that a convert could go into the Catholic Church and receive the Baptism of Water, however the issue does not address what happens to the individual who suddenly dies at the Church door before even entering the Church.
Lionel:
What you have mentioned here is irrelevant to the dogma.The baptism of desire has nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This was the Cushing-.Jesuit con game.
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Baptism of Water: Under the issue of the Baptism of Water you have argued that a convert could go into the Catholic Church and receive the Baptism of Water, however the issue does not address what happens to the individual who suddenly dies at the Church door before even entering the Church.
Lionel:
What you have mentioned here is irrelevant to the dogma.The baptism of desire has nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This was the Cushing-.Jesuit con game.
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Christopher:
Suppose the Muhammadien you referenced, was the said victim of the event above? He arranged a date for his baptism, he preached to his friends and family and on that day he was to be baptised, he dropped down dead. The Feeneyist interpretation would say he was damned because he was not baptised.
Lionel:
The baptism of desire has nothing to do with the dogma.This person you refer to above does not exist in your and my reality.All this theology is irrelevant.
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Suppose the Muhammadien you referenced, was the said victim of the event above? He arranged a date for his baptism, he preached to his friends and family and on that day he was to be baptised, he dropped down dead. The Feeneyist interpretation would say he was damned because he was not baptised.
Lionel:
The baptism of desire has nothing to do with the dogma.This person you refer to above does not exist in your and my reality.All this theology is irrelevant.
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Christopher:
That is what Baptism of Desire deals with, it does not in any way mean that Baptism of Water can suddenly be nullified and replaced. That is what the Holy Office 1949 was stressing in its condemnation of Feeyenism. You argue that the Holy Office 1949 proclamation is an exception to the Extra Ecclesiam Null Salus, but it is actually not contradictory, for the reason that it does not remove the necessity of Baptism, but it is in the context of Acts 17:23 prior to hearing St. Paul and the hypothetical death of a convert before being able to be baptised. You then stress that Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire are not contradictory to Feeneyism, but the Feeneyist’s argue that Baptism of Desire is erroneous given that if a person dies without Baptism of Water like above, they are condemned.
Lionel:
I do not know what you mean by Feeneyist. I am not using the apologetics of the St.Benedict Centers,USA. I am simply saying that for somethng to be an exeption it must exist. For someone to be an exception fundamentally he must exist. I am not into the familiar theology that can be read on the Internet.
-Lionel AndradesThat is what Baptism of Desire deals with, it does not in any way mean that Baptism of Water can suddenly be nullified and replaced. That is what the Holy Office 1949 was stressing in its condemnation of Feeyenism. You argue that the Holy Office 1949 proclamation is an exception to the Extra Ecclesiam Null Salus, but it is actually not contradictory, for the reason that it does not remove the necessity of Baptism, but it is in the context of Acts 17:23 prior to hearing St. Paul and the hypothetical death of a convert before being able to be baptised. You then stress that Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire are not contradictory to Feeneyism, but the Feeneyist’s argue that Baptism of Desire is erroneous given that if a person dies without Baptism of Water like above, they are condemned.
Lionel:
I do not know what you mean by Feeneyist. I am not using the apologetics of the St.Benedict Centers,USA. I am simply saying that for somethng to be an exeption it must exist. For someone to be an exception fundamentally he must exist. I am not into the familiar theology that can be read on the Internet.
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