So if you say someone could be saved with the Baptism of Desire or if you say that someone could not be saved with the Baptism of Desire, either way, it is irrelevant to the dogma on salvation.

Barbara:

There is some confusion about Baptism of Desire: one cannot be saved because he belongs to a religion outside the Catholic Church

Lionel:

I would like to say that Vatican Council II is traditional on the issue of other religions and Christian communities when

1) We do not assume that those who are in Heaven are exceptions on earth to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

In other words:

2) We cannot see the dead on earth; we cannot see on earth with our physical eyes, people now in Heaven.

In this context I refer to the Baptism of Desire. Whether a person can be saved or not with the Baptism of Desire is another theological issue.

I keep the text of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus before me . It says all need to be formal members of the Catholic Church for salvation i.e all need Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water for salvation.

So if you say someone could be saved with the Baptism of Desire or if you say that someone could not be saved with the Baptism of Desire, either way, it is irrelevant to the dogma on salvation. Since this case is not visible to us in 2014.The person is Heaven. So this hypothetical person cannot be an explicit exception to all needing the Baptism of Water in the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.

-Lionel Andrades

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