CCC 846 refers to the aphorism outside the church there is no salvation. It was not an aphorism it was a dogma!!

God has limited himself to the Sacraments according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. CCC 846 refers to the aphorism outside the church there is no salvation. It was not an aphorism it was a dogma!!

 

Fr.R.

I tried to explain some things, but it seems it is impossible. Reply only this: are Moses and Elijahsaved or not? How can you explain this with your thesis?

Lionel:

Moses and Elijah had to wait( in Abraham's bosom) for the Death and Resurrection of Jesus before going to Heaven.

A

Now every one needs the baptism of water for salvation.

De facto every one needs the baptism of water for salvation.

In 2014 every one needs the baptism of water for salvation and there are no known exceptions.

In the words of Vatican Council II all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7).

In the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 all need to enter the Church as through a door and CCC 1257 God knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water.

 

B

 

When CCC 1258 etc says that a person can be saved with implicit desire or in invincible ignorance it is correct.It is referring to an implicit for us case.It is a possibility known only to God. This is not a defacto case, personally known.

So far so good . There is no problem here as Catholics we can accept A and B as long as we make the distinction between implicit and explicit, invisible and visible.

The problem arises when CCC 1257 infers that B is explicit, objective, defacto known in the present times and is a known exception to A.

This is irrational.Vatican Council II does not make this claim in any text.

The error comes from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

So I can affirm A and I would be accepting Vatican Council II and I can affirm B ( as implicit for us) and I would be accepting the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846,845,1257. CCC 1257 would be accepted when it states all need the baptism of water.

God is limited to the Sacraments according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. CCC 846 refers to the aphorism outside the church there is no salvation. It was not an aphorism it was a dogma!!

-Lionel Andrades