You are denying teachings which are obligatory for all Catholics to believe in.This is a sin.It is the sin of faith.

Ecumenist:

ok, thx Lionel.
But I still think that's a hyper-trad position, which is mus-interpreting the church (like the Fundees can misinterpret the Bible, by over-focusing on the words -- like missing the meaning by studying the font face).

Lionel:

The word trad is pejorative. It is now clearly ideological.

I am a Catholic. I affirm the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church in harmony with Vatican Council II, a Council which the political Left interprets with an irrational premise.

Trad, hyper-trad, liberal,etc are words  been created by the new division, the new dividing element which has come into the Catholic Church.They are supported by political organisations which enforce pro -Satanic  values like abortion, euthanasis, atheism etc.

It is like at he time of the Protestant revolt in Europe. Along with the political help of the German princes, Luther brought new doctrines into the Catholic Church and division also.The result was violence, wars, apostasy and evil.

You are bringing new doctrines into the Church supported by the political Left, which include the Masons and the other enemies of the Church.You could become a 'Fundee' from the Left.

Ecumenist:
All the key data points line up
watch Pope Francis video (hardly a hyper-trad)http://www.davenevins.com/loveofgod/topics/more/charismatic-gifts_4all_francis.htm

Lionel:

I haven't watched the video.

Last year Pope Francis said that we cannot find Jesus outside the Church and he cited St.Igantius of Loyola and Pope Paul VI. Then he contradicted  himself.

Usually he is speaking in the context of particular people whom he is meeting or addressing.

Catholic Herald:
"Pope Francis also said Catholic charismatics have a special role to play in healing divisions among Christians by exercising "spiritual ecumenism" or praying with members of other Christian churches and communities who share a belief in Jesus as lord and savior."

Lionel:

Whenever someone says 'Pope Francis said', this or that , it has to be seen in the context of  other popes and Catholic Tradition.Since Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and the road to Heaven and Hell does not change with the changing times.

Protestants need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation is the teaching of Catholic Tradition, including Vatican Council II.

The kerygma must include accepting Jesus in the Catholic Church.
Ecumenist:
Read this. It's unmistakable again -- spiritual ecumenismhttp://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-comments-and-address-at-charismatic-renewal-convention
Read JP2 encylical:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ut_Unum_Sint

...There is no rational response, because hyper-trads put the church over the Greatest Commandment. Christ is bigger, not smaller.

 Lionel:

I love all people even those whom I know are being lost.

You are so impressed by 'miracles' that you willing to  reject the teachings of the Catholic Church.You are denying teachings which are obligatory for all Catholics to believe in.This is a sin.It is the sin of faith. The Catechism tells us that we must protect our faith.

The impressive miracles which you have seen, could take you away from the truth of the Catholic Church ? And  over time, they could turn out not to be miracles?

I have been at Catholic Charismatic revival meetings, where the so called healings, announced in public,  disappeared after a day or two.

Others who were healed or experienced something wonderful, in the name of Jesus have left the Church, outside of which, Jesus tells us in the Bible and through the Catholic Church, there is no salvation.

 Ecumenist:
Let go of the division/hatred brother;

 Lionel:

Let go of the ideology, friend, and come back to the Catholic Church 'in spirit and truth'.

 Ecumenist:

it's probably rooted in parental judgment (my two cents -- I've seen this over and over). It's not the real you.

Lionel:

It's definitely rooted in the Catholic Church according to the popes, upto John Paul II . And this is the Catholic Church not with the new, divisive doctrines, that are being politically enforced.You have picked them up like many others.

-Lionel Andrades

 

Conversation with an ecumenist -2

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/conversation-with-ecumenist-2.html#links