ABS:
O, ABS gets it now. You are an ideologue whose interpretive key to V2 is whether or not it cleaves to EENS rather than cleaves from EENS.
Lionel:
What ideology?
It is common knowledge that we cannot see the dead on earth.
Is this ideology?
Is this theology?
Is this my personal view?
It is independent of me.
The moment you say there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus you are saying that you can see the dead.
Only if you could see the dead could there be exceptions.
Lionel:
What ideology?
It is common knowledge that we cannot see the dead on earth.
Is this ideology?
Is this theology?
Is this my personal view?
It is independent of me.
The moment you say there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus you are saying that you can see the dead.
Only if you could see the dead could there be exceptions.
If you use an irrational premise you will get an irrational conclusion.
If you say that ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) is visible to you Vatican Council II will emerge non traditional.
If you say that you can see someone saved with 'seeds of the Word' (AG 11) this would mean there is salvation outside the Church. This would be a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Where is the ideology in this ?
If you use a false premise with any Church document it will emerge as a break with the past.
ABN:
Well, just because no other man in the world thinks that doesn't mean your ideology is not normative :)
Lionel:
I have no ideology or theology to put forward.
I am just pointing out to a irrationality used in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Most people including traditionalists are saying that there is VISIBLE to them salvation outside the Church. I' m only pointing it out.
-Lionel Andrades
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1 comment:
Lionel, you are correct with the visible versus invisible argument as you have explained ad nauseum with little if any understanding or acceptance by those who have read your posts.
The far greater problem is that almost the complete heirarcy, clergy and lay people believe, live and teach that there is no need to hold ALL non Catholics to No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church. Quite simply this is Cushinginism that has been adopted by all save a few.
JMJ,
George Brenner
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