Tuesday, June 10, 2014

SSPX, Franciscans of the Immaculate can affirm Vatican Council II and also Catholic Tradition : eat your cake and have it too

Joseph Shaw:
I am, obviously, completely happy to affirm the teachings, confirmed by anathemas, of all the General Councils, including those on the question of salvation outside the Church.1
Lionel:
Are you saying that all need to enter the Catholic Church in England in 2014 with faith and baptism for salvation and there are no known exceptions ?
 
There are no known exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, those of the Church Councils and popes ?
 
There was no answer from Dr.Joseph Shaw,Chairman of the Latin Mass Society in England,  to those two questions on the Catholic  Faith.
Fr.Tim Finigin, the blogger from the Diocese of Southwark, England would also say that he accepts all the teachings of the Catholic Church including that of the Letter of the Holy Office.
When asked if implicit desire mentioned in the Letter was implicit or explicit for us, he will not answer.
 
If implicit desire, is really implicit and invisible for us,then it cannot rationally be an exception to the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
If implicit desire was explicit for the cardinal who issued the Letter of the Holy Office, then it would be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It would also mean that the Holy Office made an irrational mistake.It inferred we could see the dead.
 
Fr.Tim Finigin, like Dr.Joseph Shaw, stay clear of this issue.
 
TRADITIONALIST CONFERENCE NEEDED
If only someone could  hold a conference for the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) on the theme 'Vatican Council II does not clash with the SSPX position on ecumenism and other religions.'
‘I repeat, it is possible for someone to be saved in these religions, but they are saved by the Church, and so the formulation is true: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. This must be preached.”-Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, pp. 217-218]
Elsewhere he has said that there could be people in other religions saved with implicit desire.He has not said that these cases are known to us and so they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Bishop Fellay assumes it is.Archbishop Lefebvre could imply it is.
 
When it is realised that there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in Nostra Aetate etc then the SSPX and the Franciscans of the Immaculate could accept Vatican Council II ( without the inference of explicit exceptions).They could accept Vatican Council II with implicit for us ' a ray of the Truth (NA 2) etc.
 
They cannot be accused of rejecting Vatican Council II.They would be accepting Vatican Council II but only without the explicit exceptions theory.
 
If the Vatican Curia would ask them if they endorse  Vatican Council, they would answer, "Yes we accept Vatican Council II in accord with the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus".
If they are asked, if they reject Nostra Aetate 2 they would respond, " We do not reject Nostra Aetate 2. We affirm it as being being implicit for us and explicit only for God. So it is not an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus".
If they are further questioned, "Do you accept the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to  Fr.Leonard  Feeney"?, they would respond, "Yes we accept the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus and reject an explicit baptism of desire but accept an implicit for us baptism of desire. So we affirm the baptism of desire along with the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus".
If asked to clarify, how can they affirm the baptism of desire and also the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney they could respond, "Since implicit baptism of desire is not visible to us it does not conflict with the teaching which says every one needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church. There is no conflict with the Principle of Non Contradiction".
So the bottom line is that they can affirm Vatican Council II and also Catholic Tradition.Things couldn't be so good. It's a win-win situation. They can have their cake and eat it too!
-Lionel Andrades
 

Winter for the Catholic Faith in England


DOES CARDINAL DANNEELS ASSUME THAT VATICAN COUNCIL II BROKE WITH THE PAST BECAUSE OF THE DEAD VISIBLE TO US INTERPRETATION ? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/cardinal-danneels-assume-that-vatican.html#links 

CONFERENCE NEEDED http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/06/conference-needed.html#links
 
 

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