Winter for the Catholic Faith in England

Traditionalists on Saturday had another 'fake meeting' on Vatican Council II in such a way that they protect their careers and way of living. They placed their  personal interests first and then the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic Church. They preferred to discuss Vatican Council II as a break with Tradition, since this is convenient and politically correct.It would not bring them persecution.

Joseph Shaw, the Chairman of the Latin Mass Society in England introduced Bishop Athanasius Schneider.None of the speakers said that  all  salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II  is not visible to us on earth and cannot be an  an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Instead they chose to discuss Vatican Council II with the false inference of all salvation in Heaven being explicitly visible to us on earth in 2014.

Joseph Shaw teaches at Oxford and has degrees in  philosophy and theology.He knows that we cannot see the deceased saved in invincible ignorance  and the baptism of desire.This is something obvious to someone who is illiterate or does not have a theology degree. We cannot personally see any one saved in 2014 with a 'ray of the Truth'(NA 2) so this cannot be used as an inference in philosophy or theology. He knows that these instances of salvation cannot be explicit exceptions to the traditional teaching, which says all need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.There are  no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted over centuries. Yet none of the speakes will dare mention this. This has been the pattern for years.

At LMS Conferences or in the media none of the speakers  state that Vatican Council does no one contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider  protects his career when he does not  say that ' a ray of Truth' (NA 2) can be considered invisible for us or visible for us.There is a choice.He though considers it visible for us and so the Council comes across as 'ambigous' . He does not state that Vatican Council II (AG 7-all need to convert) supports the traditional teaching on exclusive salvation.What if he said that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney ? There would be a world wide storm ?.Instead he will politely talk about Vatican Council II being a break with Tradition.This is as if he did not know that the cause for the break is an irrational inference.No one will protest if he continues to  not affirm the dogma on exclusive salvation in harmony with Vatican Council II.

 

Not a single Catholic traditionalist in England, including the SSPX priests, will correct the error of Gavin D'Costa, on the wesbite of the University of Bristol .Gavin states quite matter of factly that the  Church teaches that not every one needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. He then cites NA 2 ( a ray of the Truth) and AG 11 ( saved with seeds of the Word). These cases are not invisible for him but visible in the flesh. This is his magic inference for creating a new theology.He uses 'the great inference'. He simply infers that these deceased persons are explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. No one at the London  conference corrected his error on  Vatican Council II.

 

So for the traditionalists evangelisation means accepting that every one in England in 2014 does not need to convert. They do not need to enter the Church to avoid Hell since one  could meet someone in Englans saved with ' a ray of the Truth' etc.

 

How can you meet someone who is saved or going to be saved with ' a ray of the Truth'? How can you meet someone on the streets of London who does not need 'faith and baptism' (AG 11) to go to Heaven ? If there was such a case in 2014 it would  be known only to God.So how can Joseph Shaw and Gavin D'Costa assume that these cases are visible in general in England. It is with the use of this false premise that they interpret Vatican Council as a break with Tradition, when the fault is not with Vatican Council II.

A few days before the Conference I e-mailed Prof. Thomas Pink one of the speakers at Saturdays conference. I asked him  TWO QUESTIONS. Pink, a lecturer at Kings College, London, who spoke on Vatican Council II at the conference, did not answer the two simple questions.He probably does not want to affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It could shouting  in London that the fabled Emperor has no clothes. He  avoids saying that Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on salvation and other religions.Neither does he discuss Religious Liberty using the secular-Catholic confessional state distinction.

 

So everyone pretends Vatican Council II can only be interpreted with the irrational inference and the result is a conclusion which is a break with Tradition.This can be safely criticized.

 

Next month a few more conferences will be held by Catholic traditionalists who will look after their academic or other interests. Speakers include professional, university professors, Dr. John Rao and Roberto de Mattei.
It is a winter for the Catholic Church in England and Wales because of the prudent silence of the Catholics there.

-Lionel Andrades 

May 24, 2014

Traditionalists do not want to affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Another wasted conference in England today. http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/traditionalists-do-not-want-to-affirm.html#links

 

http://www.lms.org.uk/news-and-events/lms-one-day-conference

http://offerimustibidomine.blogspot.it/2014/05/latin-mass-society-one-day-conference.html

TWO QUESTIONS

1) Do we personally know the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc,can we see them, are they physically visible to us in 2014 ? Answer: NO WE CANNOT SEE THEM, THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE TO US or YES WE CAN SEE THEM THEY ARE VISIBLE TO US ON EARTH.

2) Since we do not know any of these cases, in real life, they are not visible for us, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, or Ad Gentes 7 which states 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation ? Answer: THEY ARE NOT EXCEPTIONS TO EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS AND AD GENTES 7 or THEY ARE EXCEPTIONS TO EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS AND AD GENTES 7