Catholic Mission:
As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can well explain to us, the Catholic Church does not maintain that you have to be a Catholic to be saved.
But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.
As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can well explain to us, the Catholic Church does not maintain that you have to be a Catholic to be saved.
But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.
Catholic Missionsaid...
As I am sure Pater Ignotus and Father McDonald can well explain to us, the Catholic Church does not maintain that you have to be a Catholic to be saved.
Lionel:
Yes it does in Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.
This is the same message of Dominus Iesus 20.
Ad Gentes 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation.
But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
Lionel:
The above passage does not state that these cases are visible to us, seen in the flesh. So these cases, are not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7.
De facto in reality, objectively, all need 'faith and baptism' to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
De jure ( in principle) hypothetically, in theory, a person can be saved in invincible ignorance or with implicit desire, as known to God.This is probability, a possibility but not a known exception in 2014.
If you are inferring that a possibility is a known case in 2014 it is irrational. We cannot see the dead and neither does any magisterial text ( Vatican Council II etc) make this claim.
But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.
Lionel:
Yes all are saved in Jesus Christ those who are saved with 'faith and baptism' and those with implicit desire etc.
Those persons who are saved with implicit desire ( baptism of desire) are not visible for us but invisible. So they are irrelevant to the traditional teaching which says all need to be Catholic,( with faith and the baptism of water,which is visible) for salvation.
All adults need faith and baptism for salvation in 2014 and you and I do not know a single exception.
-Lionel Andrades
Lionel:
Yes it does in Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.
This is the same message of Dominus Iesus 20.
Ad Gentes 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation.
But to get you started please read the Catechism sections 839-848 and mediate on the following passage in section quoted in section 847:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
Lionel:
The above passage does not state that these cases are visible to us, seen in the flesh. So these cases, are not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7.
De facto in reality, objectively, all need 'faith and baptism' to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
De jure ( in principle) hypothetically, in theory, a person can be saved in invincible ignorance or with implicit desire, as known to God.This is probability, a possibility but not a known exception in 2014.
If you are inferring that a possibility is a known case in 2014 it is irrational. We cannot see the dead and neither does any magisterial text ( Vatican Council II etc) make this claim.
But of course all are saved only through Jesus Christ.
Lionel:
Yes all are saved in Jesus Christ those who are saved with 'faith and baptism' and those with implicit desire etc.
Those persons who are saved with implicit desire ( baptism of desire) are not visible for us but invisible. So they are irrelevant to the traditional teaching which says all need to be Catholic,( with faith and the baptism of water,which is visible) for salvation.
All adults need faith and baptism for salvation in 2014 and you and I do not know a single exception.
-Lionel Andrades
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1 comment:
"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.”
The most important word in this paragraph and Church teaching is the word: MAY. In other words those too may or might achieve eternal salvation, but only known to God. If the Church taught that those too WILL achieve eternal salvation, then Salvation outside the Catholic church would be known to us. Since this is NOT the case it is absolutely necessary that we believe and teach that is absolutely necessary that all convert to the one, true Catholic Church for Salvation. If someone is saved outside this formula it is unknown to us and belongs as a possibility to God alone.
JMJ,
George Brenner
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