Joseph Shaw responds but only about being rude,boring and spam

Comments from Joseph Shaw's blog LMS Chairman

 

 

Lionel:

Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce official has nothing to say
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/foederatio-internationalis-una-voce.html#links

ReplyDelete

 

 

1. Lionel:
   May 29, 2014
   Cardinal Nicols and FIUV are telling a falsehood. Why do rank and file Catholics have to accept it?
   Cardinal Vince Nicols the President of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales (CBCEW) and the officials of the Federation International Una Voce (FIUV) are telling a lie for political or personal reasons. Why do the rank and file Catholics have to accept it ? They have to accept a factual error because they have not learnt theology ?
   
   James Bogle, the President and Joseph Shaw, theTreasurer of the FIUV are British.It is a falsehood for the FIUV and Cardinal Nicols to suggest that there are known, visible- in- the- flesh persons in 2014 , saved with 'a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II ) and ' seeds of the Word'(Ad Gentes 7).
   
   On the CBCEW website there is a video which states all do not need to convert into the Catholic Church , according to Vatican Council II. No text in Vatican Council II states this !
   
   Joseph Shaw, the Chairman of the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales abets in this falsehood.He is not willing to say that every one needs to convert into the Catholic Church in the present times to avoid Hell and there are no known exceptions.He is a lecturer at Oxford and this would put him at odds with his colleagues and of course the Cardinal-president of the CBCEW.
   So like Gavin D'Costa on the CBCEW video, for Joseph Shaw, Vatican Council II, Nostra Aeate 2 refers to the deceased in Heaven, visible on earth.The deceased-saved would have to be visible for them to be exceptions to all needing to convert in 2014.
   
   For political reasons Cardinal Vincent Nicols recently permitted Catholic politicians who support same sex marriages to receive the Eucharist at Holy Mass in England.This is Sacrilegious Communion.He also expects lay Catholics to accept nonsense about the baptism of desire etc being exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus- as if these cases were visible to him on earth to be exceptions.How can they be exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma by Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston, when we cannot see any of these cases in the flesh ?
   
   According to the CBCEW website Catholics are told to leave this 'theologial issue' to the 'experts' in inter religious dialogue. Gavin D'Costa a Catholic professor of theology at the University of Bristol, who claims he can see the deceased in England, is considered an 'expert'.He is a consultant with the CBCEW.
   
   Traditionalists in England, including Joseph Shaw, who lectures on philosophical and other subjects , are going along with this misinformation.FIUV supports this misinformation about the Catholic Church. Lay Catholics who do not know theology have to swallow this objective error since the cardinal at Westminister wants them to do so. -Lionel Andrades
   
   http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-nicols-and-fiuv-are-telling.html#links
   ReplyDelete
   Replies
   
   Joseph Shaw12:02 pm
   Dear 'Catholic Mission',
   
   I am going to start deleting your comments. They are irrelevant to the posts they are attached to - they are essentially spam. They are also incomprehensible, and for that reason boring. They are, finally, rude. You have no idea what the various people who have not responded to your spamming think about these complex issues.
   
   You have been warned.
   
   Joseph
   _______________________________________________
    
   Lionel:
Joseph,
I have been saying the same things on my blog and the blog Catholic and Loving it!. You have participated in the discussion there on other issues. I have to write so often since I never get an answer from you on a subject related to Catholic Philosophy and Theology. You are a lecturer on this subject. You are also a practising Catholic.

Instead of a response on the specific religious subject you only mention spam, being rude and boring.

This is a very serious issue in the Catholic Church.Catholics have been martyred on this subject.They did not deny the Faith.

I asked you two simple questions about the Catholic Faith, which you are not willing to affirm in public.Neither will you comment on the factual error of Gavin D'Costa.It is still there on a video shown on the websites of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales and the University of Bristol. In other words for you, LMS and FIUV being saved with ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) is an explicit exception in 2014 to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Ad Gentes 7 ( all need faith and baptism for salvation. 'All' refers to NO EXCEPTIONS).
Without referring to this issue related to Vatican Council II the LMS had a conference on Vatican Council II and evangelisation.
Even after last Saturday's conference no of the speakers will comment on this issue.Neither are you willing to discuss your views on the blog Catholic and Loving it!, where you comment on other subjects?

As a Catholic I have affirmed the answer to those TWO QUESTIONS. For me Vatican Council II is in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus without any known exception.The Catholic Church's teachings on other religions and salvation has not changed.This is the simple opinion of a lay man and you cannot as a Catholic,criticize or support it.Neither can you even discuss it ?

I am sorry that you consider what I have written as being rude. I am dealing with a difficult subject ( millions going to Hell where there is fire).I have restricted myself to doctrine.In none of my posts have I commented on your personality or charachter. I wouldn't dare do that, even if we had met.

Whatever be your motivations, if Gavin D'Costa is factually wrong and you are silent about it, even after being informed, then you are supporting a falsehood about Vatican Council II and the Catholic Church ? There is no text in the Council to support D'Costa's factual error .
In Christ.
Lionel       
 
-Lionel Andrades    
 
http://www.lmschairman.org/2014/05/lms-conference-fr-michael-mary-fssr.html?showComment=1401439550512#c6308407999441186970