Thursday, February 13, 2014

FRANCISCAN FRIARS OF THE IMMACULATE STAND OFF : ALL SIDES ARE USING THE FALSE PREMISE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II

There are two ways of looking at the issue of the Franciscans of the Immaculate(FI).
1. From the point of view of Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner the FI as a Catholic religious community must accept Vatican Council II and the Novus Ordo Mass.This makes sense. However it also implies there must be a rejection of traditional doctrine and theology and a change in the Nicene Creed.
2. From the point of view of Prof. Roberto dei Mattei and the FI members (over 200 priests who have formally  appealed to Ecclesia Dei) the FI as a Catholic religious community must not reject the traditional doctrine and theology. So they cannot accept Vatican Council II and offer the Novus Ordo Mass as a break with Tradition.

Fr.Fidenzio Volpi wants the FI to sign an oath and the FI members, most of them, will not sign it since it is against their conscience.
 
THE SPECIFIC PROBLEM
 
Fr.Fidenzio Volpi is interpreting Vatican Council II using an irrational premise.So Vatican Council II emerges non traditional. He may not be aware of this premise.
Roberto dei Mattei is interpreting Vatican Council II using the same irrational premise. He may not be aware of this premise too.So Vatican Council II emerges non traditional.
The FI are also using the same irrational premise and so the Council is a break with Tradition.
 
I, Lionel Andrades, do not use this premise and so Vatican Council II is traditional. There is no ambiguity. There is no hermeneutic of rupture. There is only a hermeneutic of continuity with the past.

So the difference between Fr.Fidenzio Volpi , Roberto Mattei and me is the use and non use of the premise. Since they are not aware of the use of the premise both sides, Fr.Volpi and the FI , must believe they are correct and are doing the right thing.Fr.Volpi believes he is faithful to the teachings of the Church, the Magisterium. Roberto dei Matteo and the FI must believe the same, since they are not advocating anything new.

The root of the problem is the premise.
( I could repeat this 100 times)

The problem is not Vatican Council II since I am interpreting it in perfect harmony with Tradition.No one has been able to contradict me all these years. No one has been able to correct me. While an Archbishop, the Dean of Theology at a Pontifical University in Rome, an American Catholic apologist and many Catholic priests have supported me.

The premise they are all using is something foreign to the Catholic Church. It was brought into the Church in the 1940's in Boston. Since then, no pope, cardinal or Bishop has discussed it nor mentioned it. Perhaps if some Catholics were aware of it they were put down by others.

Here is the irrationality being used by all sides in the FI stand off.

Premise:

1. All salvation in Heaven is physically visible to us on earth.
2. All salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is physically visible to us on earth. We personally know these cases in 2014.
3.The dead-saved in Heaven are known, explicit for us.They are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
4.Those saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) are visible to us on earth.So the dogma on exclusive salvation has changed.Protestants are saved in 2014. All do not need to enter the Catholic Church any more.
5.A Protestant can be saved with 'seeds of the Word' (AG 11 etc). This is not implicit but explicit for us.
6.Nostra Aetate (NA 2) has changed the Catholic Church's teachings.Jews, Muslims and others are saved explicitly. There are explicit exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in 2014.
7.Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy since being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) is a known exception to his traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation.

These are some aspects of how the false premise is used. I have been calling it the dead-saved and visible theory, or the dead man walking theory or the dead man walking and visible theory. I have been joking about seeing the dead downtown, meeting ghosts and shaking their hands on the streets.
 
AGREE ON THE OBVIOUS
 
So if Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, Roberto Matteo and the FI members agree  that all salvation in Heaven in 2014 is implicit for us and not explicit for us., we have the solution to the FI problem.
Implicit 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3), invisible-for-us  'seeds of the Word' (AG 11) and known only to God being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) are not known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is obvious. We cannot see the dead. So if they can all agree on the obvious we have the beginning of the solution to this innocent misunderstanding in the Church. Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities if there are no known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Roberto dei Mattei and the FI could ask Fr.Fidenzio Volpi to affirm a Vatican Council II which is rational; without the dead-saved and visible theory.

They must all be aware of the premise when interpreting Vatican Council II.They must  avoid it.Then Vatican Council II is not a break with Tradition.The FI can sign an oath accepting Vatican Council II, without the dead man walking theory.

The FI have always been offering the Tridentine Rite Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass. I have attended the Novus Ordo Mass numerous times, offered by FI priests.Ecclesiology and theology does not depend on the liturgy.
 
Since ecclesiology (understanding of Church) does not depend on the liturgy , we can look differently  at the two ways of interpreting the Church, which I mentioned above.
 
1. From the point of view of Fr.Fidenzio Volpi, the Apostolic Commissioner the FI as a Catholic religious community must accept Vatican Council II and the Novus Ordo Mass.This makes sense. However this would not imply  a rejection of traditional doctrine and theology and a change in the Nicene Creed.
2. From the point of view of Prof. Roberto dei Mattei and the FI members (over 200 priests who have formally  appealed to Ecclesia Dei) the FI as a Catholic religious community will not be rejecting traditional doctrine and theology. So they can accept Vatican Council II and offer the Novus Ordo Mass without it being a break with Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Since VII was a pastoral Council and not a dogmatic Council, it must, on that basis, defer to ALL other Councils/established dogma prior to its outcome regardless of any seeming caveat, i.e. "the false premise". If any official authority, even the pope, cardinals or bishops, claim otherwise, they are in error. The official Mass of the Catholic Church is and always has been the Traditional Mass. It has NEVER been abrogated. However, Rome has declared an unofficial "anathema" in its regard.