Sunday, October 20, 2013

Objective Error in new SSPX Italy book: Cristina Siccardi's, I'nverno della Chiesa dopo Il Concilio Vaticano II-i mutamenti e le cause

There is a new book being sold by the Society of St.Pius X, Italy(Fraternità Sacerdotale San Pio X) which makes an objective error, the same as in the book authored by Fr.Jean Marie Gleize. There is a doctrinal error in Cristina Siccardi's, I'nverno della Chiesa dopo Il Concilio Vaticano II-i mutamenti e le cause(Sugarco Edizioni 2013,Milan,Italy)
 
In Chapter 10 :Le Contraddizioni, le ambiguità, le omissioni( p.128) it is said that the doctrine on the Church, as expresed in Lumen Gentium 8 contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius XII  in Mystici Corporis  and Humani Generis.
 
The doctrine on ecumenism Siccardi says  as expressed in Lumen Gentium 8 and Unitatis Redintigratio 3 contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius  IX  in Propositions 16 and 17 of the Syllabus of Errors and those of Leone XIII in Satis cognituum and Pope Pio XI in Mortalium animos.
 
With reference to Catholic doctrine Vatican Council II (LG 8 and UR 3) contradicts the magisterium in the Syllabus of Errors and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Does it ?!!
 
Here are the quotes from Vatican Council II to which she refers: 
 
This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.-Lumen Gentium 8
 
For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect.-Unitatis Redintigratio 3
 
According to the SSPX priests in Italy there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so if there are no exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation then there must also be no exceptions to the Syllabus of Errors. The SSPX priests acknowledge that a person can be saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire as a possibility but they are not exeptions.
 
There are no exceptions mentioned in Lumen Gentium 8 and Unitatis Redintigratio 3, above.We do not know any one saved in 2013 with 'elements of sanctification and grace' (LG 8). Neither do we know any one saved in 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3).
VaticanoII un dibattito aperto
So Cristiana Siccardi and Fr.J.M Gleize, whom she describes as an expert and quotes for doctrine, have made a mistake. They have assumed that the dead now saved with elements of sanctification and grace or in imperfect communion with the Church are exceptions to the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus.
 
Possibilities are not exceptions. So LG 8 and UR 3 are not exceptions to all non Catholics, Christian and non Christian, needing to enter the Church visibly for salvation. Neither are LG 8 and UR 3 exceptions to AG 7 and LG 14 which states all need to convert into the Church.Neither Siccardi or Gleize mentions AG 7 which is in agreement with the Syllabus of Errors. So we have AG 7 in agreement with the Syllabus of Errors and there are no known exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to AG 7.
 
To assume that the dead are known exceptions to Tradition is an objective error . The SSPX Italy keeps churning out books with this error and then claims that the Council contradicts the traditional  teaching on other religions and ecumenism.
-Lionel Andrades
 

SSPX priest says being saved in 'imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) is not a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

 
A Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) priest who offered the Traditional Latin Mass at the SSPX chapel in Rome today morning said that being saved 'in imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3) or in invincible ignorance(LG 16) are not known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
Fr.Gabriel with whom I spoke to today morning said that there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and that being saved with the baptism of desire etc are possibilities but not exceptions.
 
He was indirectly contradicting Fr.Jean Marie Gleize and the SSPX  position on Vatican Council II having exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities.
 
There are no known exceptions to the traditional teaching on all needing to convert into the Church for salvation in the present times, said the young SSPX priest.His view is shared by the SSPX Prior Fr.Aldo Rossi and other Italian priests with whom I spoke to over a year.
 
On Mission Sunday he was in agreement with Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7 (2)and Lumen Gentium 14) which says all need to enter the Church with 'faith and baptism'  for salvation.Fr.J.M Gleize does not mention AG 7 and LG 14 in his books.
 
Even though Fr.Gabriel is in agreement with AG 7 and LG 14 and also the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus he still is not ready to say that Vatican Council II , in its text does not contradict the dogma . He still wants to hold the SSPX formal position that Vatican Council II contradicts the Church's traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism, even though the text does not say so, when interpreted without the dead- saved and visible theory of Cushingism.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion.-Unitatis Redintigratio 3,Vatican Council II.
 
2.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.