Tuesday, October 1, 2013

SSPX Prior says Fr.Jean Marie Gleize's use of the phrase 'via eccezionale' will be clarified by the District Superior,Italy

Father Aldo Rossi , the SSPX Prior at Albano, Italy said on Sunday morning that he would speak with the SSPX District Superior in Italy Don Pier Paulo Petrucci to clarify the phrase 'via eccezionale'(exceptional way) used by Fr.Jean Marie Gleize in his book Vaticano II- Un Dibattito Aperto (Editrice Ichthys) 2013 which is published by the SSPX District Italy, Albano,Rome.It has a preface written by Bishop Bernard Fellay and has been approved by  Father  Petrucci.VaticanoII un dibattito aperto

'19.Risposta alla terza obiezione: in Mystici corporis Pio XII dice che in via eccezionale ci si può salvare al di fuori dei limiti visibili della Chiessa Cattolica...'-Don J.M Gleize FSSPX (p.152. Editrice Ichthys.VIII Il 'Subsistit in'-Status Quaestionis),Vaticano II-Un Dibattito Aperto Questioni disputate sul XXI Concilio Ecumenico
The SSPX Prior and myself agreed that there were no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is also the position of other SSPX Italian priests with whom I spoke to in Rome.
For Fr.Jean Marie Gleize Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since there are known exceptions mentioned in the text of the Council.So  Vatican Council II for him, is at odds with the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities and churches.
I had wanted to speak to the SSPX District Superior in Albano and tell him that there were two fundamental interpretations of Vatican Council II, Cushingism and Feeneyism and that the SSPX was using the irrational and heretical Cushingism, as was Fr.Gleize.
The Council is ambigous if Cushingism is used and it is not ambigous on the issue of other religions and Christian communities if Feeneyism is used in the interpretation.
When Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre mentioned the Hindu in Tibet who could be saved in his religion, this case according to Cushingism, is known to us in the present times and so is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It would be the 'via eccezionale'. According to Feeneyism this case is not known to us personally and so cannot be relevant or an exception to the traditional  interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.So there is no via eccezionale. The baptism of water is the only way of salvation for all in 2013. The baptism of water is given by the Catholic Church to adults with Catholic faith.
So when Vatican Council II refers to a non Catholic who can  be saved in his religion (NA 2 etc), there are elements of sanctification and faith in other religions (LG 8), invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16), seeds of the Word...(AG 11) and imperfect communion with the Church (UR), we have possibilities, hypothetical cases, probabilities, what is accepted in principle and in faith but with no known reality. There is no defacto case in the present times.For these cases to be exceptions they would have to be known in 2013 . So  every one in 2013, with no known exception, needs Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation ( to go to Heaven and avoid Hell).
There has been no clarification from Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, or Econe or the SSPX (USA), to these blog posts sent to them. The SSPX (USA) makes the same error in a book written by Fr.Francois Laisney and published by the Angelus Press.Fr. Pier Paulo Petrucci has given the imprimatur for a few books in Italian which indicate that  there are known exceptions in Vatican Council II to Tradition, there is a via eccezionale.

-Lionel Andrades




Three Questions for Guido Pozzo

Pope Francis living with rabbi in Vatican, plan joint trip to Holy Land

Pope Francis living with rabbi in Vatican, plan joint trip to Holy Land

by tantamergo
Ecumenism is certainly a priority of Pope Francis.  His rabbi friend from Argentina has been staying with him for the past week in the Pope's hotel-like domicile in the Vatican:
'Never before in the history of Christian-Jewish relations have a Pope and a Rabbi celebrated their friendship by living in the Vatican together for several days, sharing all meals, including on two Jewish festivals and the Sabbath at which the Rabbi said prayers in Hebrew, and discussing what more they can do together to promote dialogue and peace in the world.
That is what actually happened over the past four days at the Vatican guesthouse (Santa Marta) where Pope Francis lives and where his friend from Buenos Aires, Rabbi Abraham Skorka, has been his guest from September 25 to this day.
“I eat with him at breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. He cares for me, and controls everything regarding my food to makes sure it is all kosher, and according to my religious tradition. These are festive days, and I have to say certain prayers at meals and, I expand the last prayer and translate it. He accompanies me together with the others at table -his secretaries and a bishop, and they all say ‘Amen’ at the end”, the Rabbi said.
By acting in this way, the Pope and Rabbi are sending an extraordinary message of friendship, dialogue and peace not only to their respective religious communities but also to the whole world. And they plan to do even more together, Rabbi Skorka revealed when we talked together at Santa Marta, on September 27.
He and the Pope are planning to travel together to the Holy Land next year. The Israeli and Palestinian authorities have invited Pope Francis, and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew1, wants him to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the historic meeting of his predecessor, Athenagoras, with Paul VI in the Holy City.
“We are dreaming of traveling together to Israel soon, and the Pope is working on this subject”, the Rabbi said. “I dream of embracing him at the Kotel, or Wailing Wall, and I will accompany him to Bethlehem, in the Palestinian territories. His presence can help a lot at this moment when the peace talks are starting again”, he added.
Skorka sees a deep spiritual significance for both of them in being together at the sites that are sacred to their respective religions. “I do not cease to be a Jew for him, and he goes on keeping his own faith. But the two spiritualities have to have a point of encounter. We cannot live in a world where we reject each other, we must build bridges.”  [Hmmm.....an opinion asserted as a bald declaration of fact.]
“We come together without burying our identities. I spoke to him about evangelization, and he stated emphatically that the Catholic Church cannot engage in proselytism”, he said...'  [Then we may as well close up shop and shut down the Church. I pray this rabbi got the Pope's meaning quite wrong.  Christ's own Great Commission COMMANDS that we evangelize and even proselytize souls, proselytism just being a negative term for those who engage in eager evangelization, but that was exactly the kind of evangelization that converted many, many Jews to the Faith and eventually conquered much of the world.]
I will say this - there are many orthodox Jews who would condemn this rabbi's conduct of his faith.  They would condemn his consorting with a gentile. The Church has constantly asserted - at least until the last 30-odd years, when ecumania really took hold - that Jews must convert for salvation, that their own "tradition" is a dead one, made obsolete by the New Covenant.  In fact, to posit that Jews have their own path to salvation, even with their rejection of the Incarnation of the Messiah, makes Christ into a liar and attacks the entire efficacy of the Gospels. It also makes into fools those many Jews (and others) who have converted to the One, True Faith.
But it seems at times that everything must be at the service of a worldly-oriented ecumenism, even the clearest of Dogmas.  The scandal this ecumenism so frequently causes the faithful is just brushed aside as a remnant of that poor, unfortunate "negative ecclesiology" some misguided souls adhere to, unable to accept the new order of things.
When will fools like me get with the program?