Pope Francis , according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846) and Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) was saying outside the church there is no salvation ,when he said: "It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church".
"It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church".
"It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church".
Outside the Church there is no salvation according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church(845,846) and Vatican Council II (AG 7 ) means every one in the present times need to convert into the Catholic Church to be saved from Hell- and there are no known exceptions. Since, though it is possible for a person to be saved in invincible ignorance, implicit desire, elements of sanctification (LG 8), imperfect communion with the Church (UR), a good conscience(LG 16) etc, these cases are known only to God. They are invisible for us. So they are irrelevant to AG 7 and the dogma on exclusive salvation. They are no exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston,the saints, the popes and Church Councils.This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II. This is the teaching of the Church according to magisterial documents.
The disssenting National Catholic Reporter would have difficulty with this report. The NCR interprets Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) as an exception to the statement of the Holy Father.It is possible to find Jesus outside the Church, for them, and to be saved from Hell. For the liberal NCR there is salvation outside the Church, since those saved in invincible ignorance etc are physically visible exceptions . Since they can allegedly see the dead-saved, for them, these deceased are exceptions to Tradition.
It doesn't make sense! Yet this is the only irrational basis for their interpretation of Vatican Council II as a break with the past.
Also for Catholic conservatives and traditionalists, this is the irrational interpretation of the Council.Fr.John Zuhlsdorf (What Does the Prayer Really Say), apologist Robert Sungenis and correspondents of Rorate Caeili make the same error.All based on irratiionality. They assume salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is explicit for us and so is an exception to the dogma on salvation and Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7, which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation. The error is unintentional since they do affirm the traditional dogma on salvation but also believe that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are visible to us. This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction.
It doesn't make sense! Yet this is the only irrational basis for their interpretation of Vatican Council II as a break with the past.
Also for Catholic conservatives and traditionalists, this is the irrational interpretation of the Council.Fr.John Zuhlsdorf (What Does the Prayer Really Say), apologist Robert Sungenis and correspondents of Rorate Caeili make the same error.All based on irratiionality. They assume salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is explicit for us and so is an exception to the dogma on salvation and Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7, which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation. The error is unintentional since they do affirm the traditional dogma on salvation but also believe that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are visible to us. This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction.
We all agree that a person can be saved in invincible ignorance etc but if these cases are visible or invisible for us is where the mistake is being made unknowingly.
They do not realize that this is heresy. Mistakenly they are saying that the defined dogma has exceptions(known or unknown) in the present times.They also misinterpret Vatican Council II (AG 7).
-Lionel Andrades
There is no rational basis in Vatican Council II for the liberal interpretation of church or ecumenism
Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not respond once again
Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not know how to handle a comment on Lumen Gentium 15
Pope celebrates his saint's day with cardinals: 'absurd' to look for Jesus without the Church .
Is Lumen Gentium 14 and Lumen Gentium 16 really an exception to Pope Francis' statement ?
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